Oh boy....I hate to see stories like this...
 

From NECN.com this morning:

A resident who was reportedly armed with a knife was shot and killed by a police officer inside their home Sunday night in Gilford, New Hampshire, the attorney general's office said.

Shortly before 10 p.m., police responded to a 911 call reporting a resident armed with a knife on Varney Point Road. When officers arrived, they found the resident inside the home. One officer discharged a Taser and a second fired his gun.

The resident was shot and has died, the attorney general's office confirmed in a release Monday morning. The person's name has not been released pending notification of family members.

An autopsy is scheduled to be conducted on Tuesday.

No police officers were injured, and the attorney general's office said there is no threat to the public.

The names of the officers involved are being withheld pending the conclusion of formal interviews. The attorney general's office said the responding officers were wearing body cameras.

No further details were released.

Sad news, but sounds justified. Will be interesting to see if more information is released. Tough time of year for those with mental issues.

I give the officers the benefit of the doubt, but from the OP it is way too early to know if they did a good job, or if the shooting was justified but they could have defused the situation without more risk, or if the shooting was not justified

Whe a Taser Doesn't Work...
 

There IS the 21-foot rule:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/a...n%20and%20fire.

I'd like to see more details of this. A person with a knife in his own home could just be left alone and confined.

I had a knife last night while enjoying my dinner. We need more details. The story didn't say he was charging anyone. Who called the police and why...

Who, what, where, when and why is missing so far in this story.

21' rule.

Who came within 21'?

If the guy with a knife was in his own home and the police approached, did the police violate the 21' rule or did the guy with the knife, who probably never left his own domain?

Yes, I said sounds justified, but definitely not enough information. If it was just a guy sitting in a house holding a knife, then the police probably had no business there. But the fact that someone called it in probably means he wasn't alone and someone felt threatened. A knife is just as deadly as a gun, and I think what APS was getting at is that a determined person can close a 20 foot gap and stab you before you can get your gun drawn. Even with your gun drawn, a determined knife wielder can still get you.

Tazers aren't any where near 100% effective. Generally if there is enough cause to deploy a tazer, then there is usually enough cause to fire a gun. Hopefully there is some video of this event. Loss of life is always sad.

Calling the police on someone should be a last resort, especially for someone having a mental episode. That said, people shouldn't be wielding knives, especially around police.

ok, unconfirmed. But we might find out that 911 was called from inside his house. And we might find out that 'the Man' killed was a 16 year old.

The media often leaves out important facts or gets them wrong.

Regardless of what happened it's a loss for everyone involved.

Wait for full investigation
 

“Could be this”, “Could be that”, “Could be whatever”.

I could take a guess but it would only that - a guess. Which is likely wrong, like everyone else’s guess here.

Just wait for the investigation to be complete. Unless there is a contest for closest correct guess?

More information here including the property owners name. The name of the property owner will tell you a lot.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...86b998d7e.html

Sorry. You are right. I know who, what, and obviously where. Just didn't want to be inappropriate. Either way, gonna suck for everyone, including the officers involved . . .

There is nothing here to indicate this was justified or not. Guy in his own house shot and killed for what reason ? Let’s see more information before making decisions

How do you know it was a guy in his own house?? My mind isn't made up yet, but..... Here's a survival hint, if a cop tells you to put a knife down, put it down, better yet, put it down when you see the cop, don't make him ask.

Moscow, Idaho, Knows "Assault" Knives...
 

Police Tasers can reach out to a maximum of 20'. Police know both of these "rules". That a firearm had to be used indicates some escalation was involved.

One might hit a paywall, but this periodical gets facts correct--periodically:

https://www.nytimes.com/article/police-tasers.html

The police do not randomly go to people's houses. They are summoned for a problem. In this case, someone else in the home likely felt threatened.

The police likely do NOT know all the details of what they are going into.

Almost no one in their right mind greets the police armed with a knife. That is an immediate escalation of the threat; to the officers and to anyone else in the home. The officers are FIRST concerned with their own and other non combatants safety. The armed person's safety is secondary.

It is easy to do post action, armchair quarterbacking of coulda, shoulda but, in the moment, there was a active threat and probably need for instant reaction against that threat. Most of us are NEVER in a situation like that. Training kicks in and you respond as taught. Officers are taught to use deadly force as a response when threatened with deadly force.

There will be a formal review and we should wait for the details. The reasons and results might not be as WE, personally, may wish but if it meets approved policing practices, it is justified. Then, if enough of us don't like the outcome there might be a review of policing practices, which are usually well thought out.

Agree
 

Yes, it certainly will. Very sad for the family and friends of the person.

What if the knife wielder had gotten into "the holiday spirits" and was thoroughly drunk?

Folks who are "blotto" arguably are not in their "right mind" but cops usually seem to treat them as if they are in this type of situation.

Interesting catch, thanks...hadn’t seen that yet. WMUR has not caught up to LDS as far as the address being released. The property ownership is referenced only because of tax maps/cards which can be accessed by the general public (but not without the address).

This is true. However, once you consider the possibility of serious mental health issues, this rational comes off the table completely. Or being under the influence.

Sad to see a young man lost his life. https://www.wmur.com/article/person-...a-fay/42389010

The Gilford police log categorized the 9:52 p.m. call as a “mental person,” signifying a mental health emergency.

Mental health crises are among the most common calls for police departments both nationally and locally. According to a report in The Concord Monitor, over 60% of people shot and killed by New Hampshire police over the past decade had a mental illness.

This is why I posted that the property owner's name would tell you a lot. The name has been released.

The victim of a police shooting Sunday night was identified as Mischa Fay, age 17, by the Attorney General's Office following the results of an autopsy conducted Tuesday.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...027c94147.html

Mental illness is usually a lifelong thing. Stay on your meds per doctor's orders if you have an issue. This person was young and may not have been diagnosed yet, this is sad.

It says there is badge cam video, so at least we will see what happened, mostly.


I grew up in Worcester MA, there was a lot of incidents with the mentally ill in crisis with the police. A mentally ill person in crisis having an episode can be dangerous, but more often than not they are more of a danger to themselves than anyone else.

What happened in Worcester during late 70s into the 80s is that police, who were dealing with these calls, got special training in how to cope with these people. The result of the training was that injury incidents to police and subjects were drastically reduced when the police had a better understanding of what was going on and used the strategies to deal with people in crisis.

I don't know if NH or these towns have programs like this, but it might be worthwhile for police departments to have this type of training to help prevent these tragedies. With over 60% of the people shot by police having had mental illness histories, it may be time to investigate or update these training programs.

I agree with you completely. This is tragic.

However, there are a couple of things I would point out.

It is one thing to discuss how to manage such a situation in a training scenario. It is completely different in an emergency situation. I would suggest even the professionals who teach such classes could mess things up in an uncontrolled and unknown situation.

In addition, while training is good and does help, it is not a certain solution. Some people in a mental health crisis simply cannot be "managed". The police walk in with very limited knowledge of the person or the situation. They have to, VERY quickly, determine what is going on and try to get control of the situation. They have to decide if the person will respond to management techniques or not and how dangerous he is. This combination of factors is a disaster waiting to happen and decisions sometimes need to be made in seconds.

The police are in a lose-lose situation.

In the Sun today it was Merrill Fay's 17 year old son. What a tragedy for the family and the community.

Yes, I think it comes down to the situation. Someone with a knife to someone else's throat calls for immediate action. On the other hand someone alone in a house holding a knife, there is probably no reason to rush.

I agree it's a tough situation for cops. It will be interesting to see if there is any type of training for dealing with mental illness. Hopefully the crackerjack journalists out there will find out.

A 19:04-minute film, made two years ago w/ 49-views .... www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewEJFCJg494 ..... with Merrill Fay, born 1936, father of the late Mischa Fay, age 17.

..... this is so unbelievably sad with regard to what's happened in Gilford NH on Sunday, January 1, 2023, about 9:52-pm.

"Thanks for coming to visit. We'll be here one hundred years from now, too." ... Merrill Fay

Additional Information on Officer-Involved Shooting in Gilford .... January 3, 2022: http://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2023/2023...d-shooting.htm


.....

Out west lots of young men wind up dead or homeless due to a combination of underlying mental illness superimposed over drug abuse.

Meth in particular can promote aggressive behavior similar to what seems to have transpired here, but obviously that is pure speculation.

Between West Alton Marina, and Fay’s….absolutely horrible stretch for the families’ running these businesses.

Obviously, they are hugely different situations, but life-changing tragedies for many in the periphery of these events. Pretty unreal.

Real-Life "Street" Training Session Goes Awry...
 

A 30-second video where a training officer called for a Taser, but used a sidearm instead:

https://youtu.be/n9qRZhEp8P0

Well, as far as I know, a taser and a police hand gun are more or less similar in shape, black color, and use by pulling the trigger so it's easy to see how a gun can get used, thinking it's a taser, in the hurried rush of a confrontation.

..... comments anyone?

Before there were tasers, i believe the police used to carry something like a 16" billy club, and probably no one ever mistook a billy club for a gun, and then proceed to shoot someone with their billy club.

Tasers involve too much technology, so police go to their hand gun when a 26" night-stick would be effective. "In New York City, the police used to use two kinds of batons depending on the time. The one for daytime was called a day-stick and was 11-inches length. Another baton, that was used at night, was 26-inches long and called a night-stick."

Another unpopular fact is that pot can precipitate psychotic episodes in people prone to or affected by mental illness.


Edit: This is a general statement I am making here, I just want to be clear. I have no idea what happened in this case, nor am I implying that drugs had anything to do with this. It's just an awful situation, condolences to the Fay family. I'm sure this is last thing they wanted to happen.

Many of you are assuming the taser and gun were fired simultaneously. I assume after hearing from a professional that the taser was fired and had little effect. That’s when a firearm would be used. A drugged individual getting hit with a taser may not feel its effects. Terrible events for everyone involved


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I can't imbed, but there is a new report on WMUR.com

With the 26" night-stick, police get trained to hit the assailant on either the thigh or arm, just below the shoulder ..... https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Peroneal_strike ..... to hit them once or twice very hard with the police baton and then step back. The assailant realizes that the thing has gone against him, and the confrontation is over.

Mischa would have had a big huge black and blue bruise on his arm or thigh, and that would send him a strong message ...... plus he would be alive to heal up the big bruise from the police baton. Death is the end of life, permanently and forever, while a big bruise to the arm or thigh will usually heal up and become healthy.

From Sept 2016, Mischa Fay's mom and dad, Merrill and Beth with Rod Stewart ..... http://www.facebook.com/FaysBoatYard...type=3&theater ..... at Bank of NH Pavilion

As a local hockey player at the Merrill Fay Ice Arena ... http://merrillfayarena.com .... in Laconia, someone reading this probably has a good idea as to the height and weight of Mishca Fay? Was he a big strong guy like his dad, or what?

Heartbreaking

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/comm...d92a61cf8.html

To FLL's point: The police are not going to approach a knife wielding man in a rage to within a distance close enough to use a nightstick. Unless you were there, you have no idea what threat the police faced.

It is a sad story and it is appropriate to wait for the facts to come out before making any judgement. The cameras worn by the two officers will explain a lot. In many cases police have a split second to make a decision and that decision will be analyzed for years afterwards.

Police logs obtained by News 9 Investigates show that police had been called to the Varney Point Road home five times for mental health concerns regarding Mischa since February 2022.

The police records indicate that he was in a rage at times and refused to take medications. In one call, he was described as being out of control and destroying things.

Several times, the log indicates he was taken to a hospital.

From WMUR:
https://www.wmur.com/article/investi...a-fay/42399109

Jon Decker, of the Laconia Daily Sun, wrote an article about police training for response to mentally ill crisis. It is well written and on spot. My comment above was pretty sarcastic, I didn't think a reporter would be on top of this. Kudos to Mr. Decker.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...2bb05e144.html

People in a mental health crisis and raging are not CAPABLE of receiving such "messages". You CANNOT reason with them. Such people that are armed with a DEADLY weapon are unpredictable, can have rage fueled strength, and are incredibly dangerous. Frankly, in such confrontations, the safety of others, including the officers, takes precedence over the person in crisis.

With a taser, the police officer aims and pulls the taser trigger ...... if it doesn't stop the assailant, he goes for his hand gun and kills the assailant.

With a police baton, it can be swung, pushed, jabbed many times. With two hands it can be used as a block. Police Departments around the world have been using police batons for 150-years while the taser is a new tool. Don't discount the 26" police baton as an effective tool in this situation in Gilford. If one had been used instead of a taser, the results would be very different.

Another police tool is mace, that gets sprayed into the assailant's face from a distance. Mace will repel a black bear, so's it should stop a 17-year old with a knife. It seems that NH Fish and Game officers take more care to not kill a black bear than the Gilford Police to not kill 17-year old, Mischa Fay.

Agreed. It is ridiculous to expect an officer facing a person with a knife to have to defend himself with a stick, especially if that person appears to be strong and/or quick...

Assuming the officer who killed him needed to shoot at that instant, the real issue is what could have been done to have prevented that moment from occurring

With all the free time you clearly have, I suggest you spend some of it watching the YouTube channel called Donut Operator. There's plenty of content for you to get educated on.

It simple terms, batons don't create the sort of space that promotes officer safety.

Sometime during the 80s and 90s several changes happened in the mental illness front. 1st and foremost, breakthrough drugs made the treatment of severe mental illness more effective. Sanitoriums and mass incarceration of mentally ill patients became less needed. The drugs were effective at tamping down psychosis and allowing patients to function normally in society. Nothing is 100% but for most of these illnesses they can be managed.

The problem, as I understand it, is that the patients, feeling better, and not wanting to deal with some side effects from the drugs, think they are cured and stop taking their medicine. After a few months, the psychosis comes back and they spiral. This is just part of mental illness. After a while, many come to understand that they can't function without the meds and lead fairly normal lives, some unfortunately don't.

In the 80s or 90s, realizing that the volume of state institutions required in the past were not needed due to the improvements in treatment, the politicians in charge saw an opportunity to cut expenses and divert funds to pet projects. But rather than just down sizing these institutions to fit the needs, they pretty much shut them down. Closing most if not all, downsizing the rest, creating a shortage of beds for people in crisis. As these facilities were shut down, thousands of patients, who had been institutionalized were sent away to fend for themselves.

Also in the 80s and 90s some patient's rights advocates decided that if people wanted to walk around crazy as a loon, no one had the right to stop them. It was made much tougher to force someone into the hospital and much tougher to force them to take drugs. This young lad had 5 encounters with police due to his illness apparently. I'm willing to bet the family ran into some difficulty with the law (not police, but courts) trying to get him treatment.

It's a very difficult problem.

Hey ...... your quote of my post doesn't show my last two sentences about ..... 'from a distance. .... mace, a black bear, NH Fish and Game, the Gilford Police, and 17-year old Mischa Fay' ...... kindly, redo the quote?

Mace is hardly used anymore, pepper spray is prevalent now. However, it doesn't always work, especially when drugs are involved. If a subject with a knife is charging you, pepper spray or a baton would not be the weapon of choice. If a taser doesn't stop the threat then a firearm may be the only option left.

Again, we won't know what happened until all the facts are in and the body camera recordings are processed. Decisions have to be made in split seconds and sometimes people are all too willing to blame the police for their actions. That is unfortunate. Unless you were there you will never understand the stress and the threat involved in this or similar situations.

You can get a pretty good idea of how quickly things happen on youtube from dash and badge cam video. It's frightening.

There is also video of cops losing their cool and either firing through fear or rage when they probably shouldn't have. Plus at least one case of a cop thinking she was firing her taser but actually firing her gun. I doubt any of this is the case here, but it happens.

The reality is that what works in the movies does not work in real life.

The police had been called five times since February. What was the result of the other five calls? Was the boy taken away to the hospital or did they tell the parents that they couldn’t do anything? Would the police know that there was an ongoing problem at that house?
The poor kid was only 17 years old. it is sad to me to think that the parents didn’t feel they had any other option.

Some of my thoughts after a few days:

I think the major failure here is that Mischa, who clearly had mental health issues, was not getting the treatment needed to avoid multiple police interventions.

Police officers have the responsibility to protect as many lives as possible, including their own.

Tragic events happen in life, and the headline "Officer/bystander killed by mentally ill man" is no less so. In fact, I would take it a step further and suggest the officer or bystanders losing their lives would be more tragic given their...innocence/neutrality (best word choice?).

There are multiple victims here. Obviously Mischa, but I see the officer as a victim as he now has to live with what transpired—whether or not it is ruled as justified—and the families of those involved.

In the end, better mental health supports to prevent Mischa getting to this point and stronger training for interactions between police and mentally ill people (if it turns out that the officer's actions could have been different) are sorely needed...but the nature of human behavior and society is that these situations will probably always exist.

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

Oh boy,...
 

Over arching the whole situation is the fact that mental illness has been treated as a step-child in society - the medical community doesn't really embrace it as an illness, and the civil community isn't trained to deal with it, so the tragedy is that many of those afflicted with mental illness fall through the cracks of society, both medically and civilly, and end up with additional, even more serious problems. There is no question that something has to change to interrupt this vicious cycle in order for there to be progress in the treatment of mental illness.

Fact. The sad thing is after these incidents it invariably come out that the guy was a known nut and the friends or neighbors expected a problem or had called the police previously. Unfortunately locking people up for their own good is no longer a thing and then the cops are left to deal with the aftermath and as mentioned they show up with no history and a crazy guy waving a knife around. Then of course, suicide by cop happens too.

Kindly re-read what I quoted. You'll see the two sentences in question are in fact included.

Mace/OC spray, et al and batons do not allow enough space for a given officer's safety.

Additionally, tasers have shown to offer limited effectiveness on folks who are on an adrenaline dump.

I highly recommend checking out Donut Operator on YouTube. It's remarkable what law enforcement is up against on any given day

The police were familiar with the boy and his problems.

Misha's family called the police; I have to assume they were in the home snd potentially at risk from Misha when the police arrived?

If so, then I as "the reasonable man" could understand the use of deadly force to protect them from being stabbed.

But if they'd fled, or met the police outside the home upon arrival, then the police would have had the presumably "better" option of quickly retreating when the knife-wielding teen approached them and then await the appearance of mental health professionals to deal with the disturbed young man.

A great summary of a sad history.

I agree with I think are your two implications--we should be spending a lot more on mental health beyond just drugs, and we have given too much freedom to people who are obviously unable to live safely on their own.

Until the 70's there were state hospitals everywhere to house many people some with real mental health needs, some with learning issues and some behavioral issues. Geraldo Rivera became famous when he went into Willow Brook on Staten Island with cameras rolling. (I knew a lot about this place). As was said earlier here people rightfully objected but as usual decided to let everyone out and now it's tough to commit anyone until they commit a crime. This is a sad example

My mistake. I see what you're seeing now and I just remembered I did quote everything at first then, before I posted, ended up deleting those specific statements.

Thankfully the statements provided zero substance to the conversation so take comfort in the fact that their absence in the quote is inconsequential.

Deinstitutionalization
 

..........

Laconia State School
 

I remember well as a Laconia resident when a woman got the courts to shut down the school. On the last day, those patients who had not been placed in foster homes or assisted living facilities were on the street like the homeless.

'Lionel' would wander downtown Laconia with his little red wagon.

'Debbie', who set up a table with a placemat and silverware in 'Dunkin' Donuts' every morning and ate a donut that she found in the dumpster.

Police would complain of former patients wandering around the state school property as this was their home.

This went on for years. The state's hands were tied because of the court order. Sad.

A little different.
Psychosis is treated at NH State Hospital.
They moved to the New Hampshire Hospital in 1989.

The Laconia State School covered developmental disabilities.

Check your facts
 

You may want to check your facts. My husband was a Police Officer in Worcester during the 70’s and 80’s. There was no special training at that time to deal with mental illness. In addition, 2023 is vastly different on so many levels.

People need to wait and see the facts before passing judgment on this difficult situation for the family and for the Gilford Police Department,

First of all, I'm not passing judgement I really hope this wasn't a police mistake, second I'm not sure of the exact dates, it may have been the late 80s or early 90s, but there was supposedly funding for it and it supposedly happened. {snipped}


Edit: Found it, attached is Worcester, MA policy on the Mentally ill and how they are dealt with. The first revision was March of 1992, the official policy, these things are not generated overnight, I'm pretty sure this was all being at least discussed in the early to mid 80s and supposedly practices implemented about the same time. That's what I remember.

https://www.worcesterma.gov/wpd-poli...procedures.pdf

You sir hit the nail on the head. People were institutionalized then. But that ended because we had let them out so everyone is mainstreamed in society and somehow we thought costs would be less. Hmm.

The other issue is medical field. There simply are not enough doctors, psychiatrists to handle the number of those that need help. General practice doctors are trying to assist but do not always know the correct drugs to prescribe. Not a great picture. Now think about the stream of folks crossing the southern border and how that could play into the equation…..

You mean the southern border of NH?

NHPR, Jan 04, 2023: https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2023-01...call-logs-show ... by Todd Bookman and Sarah Gibson.

Police handguns are very powerful 40-caliber with very deadly ammo, so's probably shooting him in the shoulder or the thigh would have totally put him down on the ground from the impact shock without killing him.

CPR, cardiopulmonary resuscitation was attempted before he was transported to the local hospital.

What is CPR? ..... https://cpr.heart.org/en/resources/what-is-cpr

It seems illogical to first shoot someone in the chest with a high powered gun, and then attempt to resuscitate them with cardiopulmonary resuscitation when you can simply shoot them in the thigh or shoulder in the first place which would definitely put a stop to their knife threat without killing them.

Another police item is pepper spray that is sprayed into his face from a distance. Another police item is the 26" police baton. And, another police item is the Taser, which was attempted and it is unknown why that did not work?

There must be some better plan than going to the gun and killing him?

So, what happened with the Taser that it did not stop 17-year old, Mishca Fay?

Schizophrenia and Marijuana...
 

From WebMD:

Police are trained to shoot at the center of mass, which is the torso. The split second that a decision is made may not include time to aim at smaller parts of a moving target that is approaching you. You also have a much greater chance of missing the target. In that situation you don't have the time to try all of the weapons at your disposal. You make instant decisions that are then criticized by people who were not there.

From the initial determination that the subject must be stopped to the end of the threat is often less than two seconds, not a lot of time to consider all the options. Again, we should wait for the facts to come out.

It is too bad that the Live PD TV show is no longer on. I think it gave many people a more realistic understanding of what police officers see and exposes a side of the population that the average citizen will never encounter.

Do Tasers Have a Weak Point...?
 

1) When a Taser is activated, there is a "pop" sound and two darts are sent on their way. If the control button is lifted after the pop, no electrical current is directed to the darts. (A common error among those accustomed to firearms).

2) I had an occasion to examine a Taser which had failed its Jamaican purchaser in a life-and-death situation. I hired an electrician to be present when opening the hermetically-sealed Taser.

Opening the Taser disclosed the vital microswitch had simply fallen from its bond with the plastic case. I reported my finding and advised the firm representing the plaintiff. Nothing more was heard, so I suspect Taser quickly "settled" with the plaintiff.

Taser listed their expert witness' qualifications, which included "rocket-scientist"! :eek2:

If an officer has decided to fire their gun, they usually shoot for center mass to assure a hit. Trying to hit a person in a smaller body part, especially in such a situation, is very difficult. As far as we know, maybe the officer WAS trying to hit him in the shoulder and missed.

Pepper spray may also be difficult to aim correctly and may not be effective against an enraged person.

All these alternative methods are an option WHEN THE PERSON IS NOT ARMED. Fey picking up a lethal weapon significantly changed the choice of options.

From personal experience, mental health professionals are reluctant to aggressively treat young people. Teenagers are going through a normally turbulent emotional period and counselors are cautious about making a diagnosis and using strong medications. From news stories, it seems like there had been a escalation in his behavior in the past year. Given my experience, I would not be surprised if they "slow walked" a diagnosis and treatment. For many young patients that's probably the right approach. For an unpredictable few, it can be a disaster.

Beyond that, we don't know how actively the family was pursuing treatment. Such behavior can be a shock and it can take some time to come to grips with it.

Tilton....

Check out "On Patrol Live"... same show as Live PD including 2 of the same hosts! I think its on REELZ network. (It comes with my DirecTV streaming).

You are also 100% on point.... its easy to armchair quarterback a lethal situation. Unfortunately, the kid was armed and in crisis. A no win situation for anyone. I am sure all who were involved feel horrible about the outcome. Especially the police officer. I am sure he didn't go into work that day thinking he was going to have to shoot a 17 year old.

Woodsy

Agreed, for sure, but five/six police calls is a different level.

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

On the subject of ensuring compliance with mental health treatment:

Many if not most of today's adults with a debilitating mental illness, be it organic or drug-induced, are savvy enough to apply for and receive gov't aid such as SSI, food stamps, and other benefits.

Medicine has advanced to the point that there are time released meds which if taken obviate the need for daily dosing, which the mentally ill eschew.

OK, now for the plan: require as a condition precedent that a mentally ill claimant physically go to a treatment center and be observed to take their monthly pills or med injections before getting the money: once they've been observed to comply with prescribed meds, release the money / benefits.

As it stands now the two are not linked: I see no good reason why they should not be.

Ok I thought about it. The issues in ElPaso will have zero impact on current healthcare in Gifford / Laconia. Let’s be realistic.

As I was reading his obituary, he was just a kid doing what kids like to do. He loved to go out in his boat, he love to play hockey and he was a huge Star Wars fan.

It mentioned briefly that two years ago his health had changed. I don’t know if that meant mental health or physical health. It went on to say that he was loved by everyone including many doctors, nurses, and healthcare professionals.

The thing about many mentally ill people is that they don't do "links" they way you and I might see them. Your suggestion might be a small part of a solution but it doesn't recognise much of what mental illness is. My point is proven by how many people are on living on the streets with no government assistance.

But can we state for certain that those living on the streets are mentally ill? Or even that they entered that situation due to mental illness?

I was asked about the new ''market priced'' ''affordable'' housing that is slated to be built at the old LSS property. Would these help the housing situation in Laconia? My answer was no. It will simply create more opportunity for those coming from outside the area to move to the area at a less expensive rate than might currently exist.

The population in Laconia is roughly what it was in the mid-80s, the housing stock has expanded rapidly.

Police Knew Of Previous Circumstances...
 

Gilford P.D. dispatched two officers.

ONE officer can't be expected to operate both a Taser and a handgun.
:(

Do I remember correctly that a New Hampshire bear can be fought-off using a broom?
:rolleye2:

the first step is to handle the easy ones. Go to any city and find a guy wearing ten pairs of pants who is in an argument with a stop sign and you have found your nut. Similarly, living under a dumpster and refusing any help. These are not the simple "between job" homeless but they are the ones where all the money is spent.

I was reading the other day (or maybe radio) San Diego, Portland, Seattle and a few others something like 50% of the ambulance calls in each city were regarding the same 10 or so bums over and over. Costing millions which would be so much better spent getting them into a locked room for a while.

the amount spent on this over decades has only the result of it getting worse because the wrong solutions are being used. Los Angeles is giving out hotel rooms with no drug testing or any other requirements except patting themselves on the back for "helping"

like most problems the solutions are not hard, if there is the will to act.

Did he start out on the streets wearing ten pairs of pants and arguing with a stop sign? Or did he evolve to that from the stress of being homeless?

That was my point.

Laconia now has lots of homeless... but the census population has remained the same for decades while the number of housing units has exploded.

The problem is not the lack of housing. And you can't make an open-ended sale of market priced housing - regardless of how cheaply I can design them - with the certainty that the local homeless or near homeless (having trouble affording their current housing) will be the ones to purchase them.

In fact, I can't even sell only to labor force housing... as we are allowed to only discriminate against younger buyers... not older.

So the solution we currently use is wait for them to be homeless, and see what other problems we can stack on to that.

New Information. https://www.wmur.com/article/gilford...-1723/42424069

To answer a previous question, homelessness does not cause the mental heath issues you described, although it certainly can cause PTSD and other issues.
As to the housing, it is true that constitutional rules prohibit who get to/has to be in housing. I think there needs to be local solutions. For instance, a project proposed for a location might be required to provide some amount of Workforce Housing development in proportion to a portion of their employment needs. Subsidies are unpopular, but perhaps local tax or State business tax relief can be proposed for those housing development that lease to a certain percentage of local workforce.
I just don't think we have expended the discussion about possibilities.
I read an article today about locations in Mass that had restrictive zoning (such as max 2 bedroom units) which limited family rentals. Local zoning has been target as "the bad guy" in this housing market in NH. From what I see, the opportunities to create housing are not restricted nearly as much as the article about Mass has suggested. There is a development problem, for sure.

In your example... the homelessness leads to the PTSD (mental illness), so the homelessness is the root cause - for those particular cases.

The ''problem'' of homelessness has been in the limelight for two decades in this area.

They have no problem with ''discussing the possibilities''...
They simply want to only ''discuss the possibilities''.

In your example... the homelessness leads to the PTSD (mental illness), so the homelessness is the root cause - for those particular cases.

The ''problem'' of homelessness has been in the limelight for two decades in this area.

They have no problem with ''discussing the possibilities''...
They simply want to only ''discuss the possibilities''.

There are zoning restrictions in the area. They do play a role... because their role was to increase housing values while attempting to lower tax expenditures.
But it is a bigger issue than just local. If one locality works on the condition, another locality can use it to benefit without the additional financial and social costs.

It used to be that family took care of their own.

If Bobby got in trouble, dad used the belt to correct him: worked well enough.

If he had mental problems his family usually took care of him.

But now half or more young people live in single parent homes, usually mom, and that ain't good.

Drug abuse only makes it worse.

I see no solution, only a further slide into social dysfunction, absent fundamental changes in both the law and attitude.

"May the force be with you Mischa"
 

Noticed while driving down Rt 11 in Gilford, the sign out front Fay's Ship Store building now says "May the force be with you Mischa".

It's been almost six weeks since Mischa's January 1 Gilford Police shooting death and the NH Attorney General has yet to release a public report or the video from the two police personal cameras, as the situation went down. It was something like two minutes time, supposedly, from start to shooting death.

..... oh well ..... today is May 15, 2023 ..... about three months since Fay's Ship Store first displayed their message "May The Force Be With You, Mishca" on their Route 11, Gilford business sign, as seen by car traffic from Route 11.

...... and still ..... not a peep of information issued publicly by the NH Attorney General about the January 1, Gilford Police shooting death of 17-year old Mishca Fay.

Well known singer, Rod Stuart will be returning to the Bank of NH Pavilion on August 28, so could be he'll sing a tribute song, in memory to the late Mishca Fay.

No Charges
 

A sad situation for everyone involved. Both officers are back to work.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...3f5cb2bb5.html