Masks and "the cult of selfishness"
Excellent editorial yesterday: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/27/o...gtype=Homepage
My position is simple: I don't want to make you sick in case I'm a carrier of COVID-19 with no symptoms. And I don't want you to make me sick in case you're a carrier. The most recent research says that transmission through the air is real---summarized here by an engineer who studies aerosol virus transmission: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/o...gtype=Homepage Hence I gladly wear a mask for your protection, and in hopes that you will protect me in return. |
This has been beaten to death!
Please give it a rest... Dan |
....... "avoid crowds"
" just like the smoke from a cigarette ........ avoid crowds ....... ventilation helps" ...... are three quotes from this NY Times July 30, air transmission, opinion article above, "Yes, the Coronavirus Is in the Air" and thanks very much for posting a link by www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linsey_Marr , an ironman (woman) triathlete.
Am seeing more folks wearing masks now for outside public use like walking on a public sidewalk. Am seeing almost no one inside a store without a mask. If one mask is good, then two masks, one within the outer ....... is more effective ..... like a heavy cotton mask on top of a light thin mask. Apparently, Bike Week is moving ahead and will be held in the last week of august. So, what's the name for those fully enclosed motorcycle helmets that cover entire head and face, a big helmet and could be the way to go for attending bike week ...... wear a full helmet with two masks inside, all total ..... while on the bike or on the boardwalk ....... and you are good to go to Bike Week! ..... :eek: Would you want to be one of the local cops that gets assigned to police the motorcycle crowds ...... no-thanks. July 30, 2020 http://www.discovermagazine.com/heal...americans-were ..... 102 years later, the Laconia police will definitely have a lot better mask than what these 1918-police had for masks, back then! For $7.50, Walmart has a 5-pak of Hanes all-cotton, black or white three ply masks, made in Vietnam, that supposedly can stand up to 25 washings which seem like a comfy, sturdy, reliable type of a mouth/nose cover. Too bad ...... there was no Walmart in 1918 ...... and look at the flimsy masks the 1918-Seattle cops got to use in the photo. |
“The most recent research ...”. Until the next round of most recent research.
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In my original post I meant to emphasize the "cult of selfishness" described in the Times opinion piece more than masks---masks are just an illustration.
The cult of selfishness is a huge change from decades ago and very striking today. I think it has gotten us into terrible trouble on many fronts. If you go back to the national war effort in World War II, you see that the whole nation pulled together and people were willing to make personal sacrifices for the good of the country, meaning their fellow citizens. With their efforts, we survived the war and were able to rebuild our lives. You also saw this in some but not all European countries, during both World War II and the pandemic. This is clearly not the case in the US today. I realize that Krugman's article is highly partisan, but anyone 60 years or older remembers a time when there was no national cult of selfishness and greed, regardless of what party was in power. We never heard of road rage. People didn't cut in front of you in waiting lines. Tradesmen and doctors charged you what you could afford and didn't cheat you. Lower-middle-class workers could afford a reasonably priced house. People knew when their neighbors were in need and offered help. Any many more examples. I don't think any society can survive with a cult of selfishness. If the goal of selfishness is to enhance personal wealth, freedom, etc., that seems doomed to fail, especially in a pandemic. What are you going to do with all that money and freedom when the virus catches up with you and kills you? Krugman writes, "What they call 'freedom' is actually absence of responsibility." I love my freedom as much as anyone else. But people with an understanding of what it means to live in a society with other people also understand that you have to have equal measures of freedom and responsibility. If you're the parent of teenagers, you know how hard that is for adolescents. We have reverted to an adolescent understanding of freedom. It just seems so obvious to me, as a basic moral principle that holds true in all times and all places, that the freedoms I want to claim for myself can't hurt or kill others. How have we strayed so far from this basic idea? |
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Doesn't it sound like your 15 year-old? Maybe your 8 year-old? |
..... ever had the coronavirus?
So, if the coronavirus is just like the flu, or a bad flu, then why has the U.S. military banned corona survivors from joining the military?
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Once again...
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Zwe-jk5lexL9Ne Dade |
...... ever had the coronavirus?
May 12, 2020, opinion from www.taskandpurpose.com:
http://www.taskandpurpose.com/opinio...ve-in-military on 'Banning Covid-19 survivors from military .... While not in the military, E-Rod, Eduardo Rodriguez, 27-year old Red Sox pitcher from Venezualia has been shut down for the season. Due to an inflammation of his heart, caused by coronavirus, is persistent and past the point where the Red Sox want to get him ready to pitch this season. "Obviously, this is unfortunate news for a Red Sox team that currently has one of the worst pitching staffs in the major leagues. But with Rodriquez's heart issue persisting, shutting him down for the 60-game campaign is the decision that needed to be made." The human physiology is almost always good-to-go for fixing itself, and getting healthy, but sometimes needs some extra help from trained medical care people. Like, how much does it hurt, and how much pain do you have, and maybe you really need to see a doctor? ............. .... hey APS, what happened to your post from the Chinese military on the US military and the coronavirus ........ it seems to have been deleted? ....... that was an interesting read ...... any chance it can be re-posted here? |
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Commissioner and many others obviously in denial. Kind of like Washington. Sadness. |
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Or...I might have included a reference to "Pravda on the Potomac"... ;) |
It will be be interesting to see what people think about this.
Alfie Oaks- Covid Report Alfie Oaks owns several food/grocery establishments through out Naples Florida. Just last year he opened up a multi million dollar store called Seed To Table, which took over 5 years to build. He also owns several thousands acres of farm land in central Collier County along with packaging and processing plants. Alfie has several thousand employees from the farm land to retail stores. He has always been one to speak his mind. Below is his article that was published on the internet. Most everyone of us at Seed to Table have never worn a mask. Many people from the beginning of this political pandemic called me reckless and irresponsible. But let's look at the facts. Over 2300 employees and hardly anyone has even have the slightest bit of illness. Over the past four months the few members in our company that had the slightest symptoms went to a local doctor that I will not name to protect the use of hydroxychloroquine and vitamins. Every single employee that we sent over was better within two days. The sad truth is the World Health Organization and CDC could have pulled off the same scam every year for the last 200 years. Knowing that every comorbidity has now been chalked up to Covid from the very beginning, it is clear to see why the numbers that are in excess of the normal flu season. The facts clearly show that FEWER people have died during the first seven months of 2020 than during the same period in 2018 and 2019. I completely understand why the masses have been conditioned by the media and are so eager to buy into the fear. Sometimes the LIE is so big that you would almost be a fool not to buy into it! THE TIME HAS COME FOR THOSE STILL ASLEEP TO WAKE UP, BECAUSE THIS SHAM/DRESS REHEARSAL WILL CERTAINLY BE THE LAST CHANCE; THOSE CHOOSING TO REMAIN IN DENIAL, GIVING THE FINGER TO REALITY ARE GOING TO MAKE ALL OF US PAY THE PRICE ... FEEL “FREE” TO FACT CHECK EACH OF THESE, PLEASE! 🔺"CDC admitted they screwed up COVID19 infection counts and intentionally misled the public and have apologized, clarifying that the amount of people truly infected is much lower than what was originally reported -- an error so egregious it made the director of the Harvard Global Health Institute say “how could the CDC make this mistake? This is a mess." 🔺The American Coronavirus Task Force also admitted to fudging the National COVID19 death count when Dr. Birx said the deaths are people who died “with” COVID19 not “from” COVID19, thus making the real death count much lower than what is currently being reported. 🔺Dr. Anthony Fauci admitted masks won’t help against the virus and mask manufacturers are now including warnings that their products do not deter COVID19. 🔺Fauci also said that continuing to close the country could cause irreparable damage. 🔺CDC backtracked their initial claim that led governors to shutdown their states & clarified that COVID19 does not spread easily on surfaces. 🔺Governor of New York Andrew Cuomo confirmed a recent health study showing that 70% of new infections actually originate at home, thus making stay at home orders one of the most dangerous mandates currently in place. 🔺Trump stopped funding the WHO and threatened to cut off money permanently until they can prove they are no longer corruptly influenced by communist China after they lied to our country about human to human transmission of COVID19 in January. 🔺The curve is flattened, the CDC, WHO, Dr. Fauci, our governors, and many more were completely wrong about the potential threat of this virus. 🔺If you are still living in fear, Don’t be. The media, global organizations, the government, and its agencies “mislead” the public. 🔺People called those of us who knew this all along conspiracy theorists, but it turns out we were just following the facts! 🔺Open up your businesses, churches, and homes. Don’t fall for the lies any longer. If you fell for the lies this time, wake up and join the army of truth seekers fighting on the front lines. 🔺 Florida has just admitted to miscalculations on some that received positive COVID-19 results but never got tested and many others have been incorrectly identified as positive in the state’s system. 🔺 WHO have just admitted that transmission of the virus from an asymptomatic carriers - the whole reason for the lockdown, is rare!! ie you could not spread it before showing any symptoms!! ⚠ The CDC just confirmed a .4 to .26% death-rate for Covid 19. The death rate for the flu shot is .6. Twice as high as Covid! For that, we have: • Added nearly 6 trillion to national debt • Laid-off or furloughed 50 million workers • Placed 60 million on food stamps • Gone from 3.5%to 14.7% unemployment • Crippled the petroleum industry • Ruined the tourism industry • Bankrupted the service industry • Caused an impending meat and protein crisis • Threatened, fined, and arrested church leaders • Exacerbated mental health problems • Shut down schools and colleges • Given unbridled power to unelected officials • Increased suicides higher than COVID deaths • Delayed surgeries and treatments for profound illnesses • Infringed upon countless important civil liberties • Placed 300 million Americans on house arrest Bill Gates has placed himself in such a position of influence by heavily funding all corners to make this lie happen. We need to start treating it as the lie it is. Seriously our whole way of life is at stake, and they have plans to make it much worse now introducing it as "the grand reset", "the beginning of the 4th revolution" (ie a surveillance state of control, where everyone lives in what is essentially a strict open air prison where you are tracked, nothing is private, and everything is decided for you, and you have no rights whatsoever, and there can be no resistance. |
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Also--not sure at all what this has to do with the Lakes Region. Seems to be just rehashing other obvious misinformation at the national level. If you're going to publish stuff from paranoid morons, I think they're supposed to be local. |
I had to stop reading when he said the WHO and the CDC have pulled off the same scam for 200 years. [emoji19]
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Devastating Open Letter to Dr. Fauci...
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After asking nearly 100 questions--In sum: "Dismissal of the science results in bad medicine, and the outcome is over 160,000 dead Americans. Countries that have followed the science and treated the disease in the early stages have far better results, a fact that has been concealed from the American Public". https://www.thedesertreview.com/opin...0983bc072.html And, to pile-on... Today the Governor of Minnesota has "unbanned" the use (and prescriptions for) HCQ. :cool: |
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But back to Don's request of all of us--if you're going to publish ridiculous stuff, it's at least supposed to be Lakes Region ridiculous stuff, isn't it? |
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Learn to read please... |
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My two cents’ worth
Over the past several months, we have seen several physicians interviewed re the use of hydrochloroquine in the treatment of Covid-19, and they made very compelling arguments for some remarkable results when used with another drug and when used early in the diagnosric process. They certainly did not come across as “quacks”. I am not a physician, and I don’t pretend to be an expert on this, but we found it odd...more than odd, in fact that a number of states outlawed its use for this disease until very recently. My interest in this on this forum is not intended to stir the political pot, but the issue is germane to residents of the lakes region as we deal with this pandemic. It makes no sense to me to limit the use of hydrochloroquine, a relatively inexpensive drug, when it has allegedly had remarkable success with many patients. Maybe we can hear from some local physicians on this.
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Better than local physicians, who are subject to the same kind of anecdotal distortions, let's hear from the FDA. They've said that there are serious safety risks and no proven benefit. I hope that folks will read the link and also remember that the FDA leadership is controlled by the President. The President lets the FDA discourage its use because he knows he was wrong to tout it during the "this will all be over by Easter" phase. https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safet...tal-setting-or |
Just one data point. But I know people that have been on hydrochloroquine for 20 years to boost immune system with no negative results. Somethings need to be monitored to make sure there and no negative effects but it is manageable. Can’t say for certain it is making a difference based on small sample size....but it is certainly not the dangerous drug many in media make it out to be.
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So while it might seem like HCQ is getting a bum rap or being critiqued unfairly, it's really just going through the same brutal approval process as everything else. For folks who'd like more info, you might want to google "Phase III clinical trials", or "FDA approval process", or "how many drugs fail clinical trials" for more explanation of how and why we hold experimental stuff to high standards and why very promising therapies often fail. |
Not sure I understand your point. HCQ has been prescribed for decades by numerous doctors as an effective treatment to help people with immune deficiencies. The risks and potential side effects are well understood. It has been through the “brutal approval process” and is not experimental. What is not known for this drug, or any other at this point, is whether it is effective in helping people against this particular virus.
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First, it's easy to find people who will vouch for therapies the FDA would describe as unsafe and/or ineffective based on Phase III clinical trials. That's frustrating, but it is not unique to COVID-19. There is not some grand conspiracy, it's just how we regulate medicine in general. Second, HCQ is experimental with respect to COVID-19. We do not have a rigorous understanding of the benefits, and early results, as referenced in my FDA link above, are not promising. |
Not to get in the middle of this. HCQ does have a long history of medical use...boosting the immune system is not one of them. It has not been used to “help people with immune deficiencies.” It actually has been used for the opposite effect.
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Mask Study—Using Vaping—at YouTube...
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Employees at Wolfeboro's Walgreens wear their masks, but half of 'em wear their masks under their nose or on their chins. :eek2: Efficacy of four different models are demonstrated at YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrPCgh4UkAU |
I keep going back to other countries, like Germany. How do they have this much more under control? Scientific articles have been published that claim America could be at 40-50k deaths instead of 200+k. How? Usually has to do with masks, time, distance, and saturation, right?
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Maybe before you launch another round of politically charged misinformation on covid, you'll go back and look at some of your posts from the spring assuring us it's nothing, will blow over soon, vaccine by July, etc |
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I know it's not that simple, but a lot of the cases are old(er) people who ultimately died from the complications of Covid (who would not have died otherwise). Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
Elderly deaths
Thinking that an older person in a nursing home that died of Covid is the same as dying from old age peacefully is wrong. Covid impairs the lungs ability to breathe thus causing the victim to experience the effect of drowning before they get put (if they do) on a ventilator.
Also the reason for death is very important, because if the victim has covid, the process of how their body is handled is very different than that of someone who does not have covid. |
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My sister is in the medical field in NY along with several of my clients. Many including cancer heart attacks and cancer victim deaths were labeled Covid just because they tested positive. Remember a hospital received 30k from the fed for every “Covid” death. The numbers are severely skewed and extremely misleading. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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Plus, it's a complete mystery as to how hundreds of thousands of additional people have died this year compared to last. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm Thank you for clarifying. |
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Yes people died of Covid but no worse than the normal flu and less than other flu strains such as swine and Zika yet the country was not shut down. ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY CONTROL AND AN ELECTION. THIS IS NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY CHECK THE FACTS Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
I well remember one of the most recent scandals in the VA system. One of the things the hospital management was judged on was how long people waited for appointments so if a request was in the system for too long they just deleted it to improve their metrics. So sure, people will create phony documents and lie about things for money or power or status and it does not have to be a conspiracy just random disconnected groups given incentive to cheat.
And don't forget there were some 300 labs in Florida that reported only positive test results showing a 100% rate. Whatever happened to that? I never heard any more about it and who knows if the numbers were corrected but I do know it was about the time everyones hair was on fire over the "surging" numbers in Florida. https://www.wfla.com/8-on-your-side/...te-data-shows/ |
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Masks and "the cult of selfishness"
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But here are some from the CDC. This is what a whole country was shut down for, maybe we should shut down the fast food and tobacco industry while we are at it as they kill more people than Covid. Attachment 16466 Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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I hope you'll take a deep breath, go back and read all your posts, and then compare them to what actually happened. |
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There simply just were not 209k deaths DIRECTLY due to Covid. Even if there were in a country of 300k it is ludicrous to shut down the economy and education system. Again take precautions wear a mask keep a distance but to close a country is crazy. The collateral damage of the economy and our children in the future is incalculable. Your have you opinion I have mine. Done! Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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Hope y'all are well at your school. Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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I’ve personally known 11 people now that have had it. One has passed and she was elderly. All others have thankfully recovered however one was very ill requiring hospitalization and nearly was placed on a ventilator. Fortunately he just barely was able to maintain adequate oxygenation and improved without requiring intubation. He had NO (ZERO) associated risk factors and is in his 40’s. He’s a health conscious guy who works out like crazy and probably caught COVID which nearly killed him at the gym....how’s that for irony? For those that think they are healthy and therefore this is no big deal.....I say...GOOD LUCK! [emoji456] [emoji456] Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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Wake up it’s about money and control. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
Germany Got the Virus First...
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Extending sea-to-sea, state governments are charged with an appropriate actions by those individual states. Local governments also play a part. (Montana is bigger than Germany). BTW: A German minister said today, that deaths from "other causes" will handily exceed Covid-19 deaths--especially in Africa. NGOs have drawn back from Africa to assist the home country. |
Yes, wake up. It is real
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The money for healthcare treatments, research and vaccines, along with bail-outs is like water, magically flowing from empty coffers. Mostly for perceived needs. Too soon to be sure how that will play out. Probably a lot of waste. I'm not buying most of the conspiracy theories, especially at the local and state levels but epic exploitation seems to be common behind the scenes. If it was a US only epidemic, maybe someone could be found pulling the strings, but a global conspiracy seems unlikely. You can't fool all the people all of the time, I hope. So yes, wake up. Consider the control recommendations and obey the few requirements. Accept that they are good for the community, are everyone's responsibility and will change as new information is learned or curves shift up again. Much of the various government levels are doing their best to help. Be glad the state isn't trying to control its citizens as strongly as in other parts of the world. Spend your money locally. Take what you need from government handouts and call out corona corruption where you see it. Live life on your terms, balancing your unique balance of risk and precaution and letting others live theirs. Here in the lakes region, I think most of us get this and have been rewarded with a lot of freedom. The few selfish ones that aren't buying into the need for control are at little risk because so many are taking precautions. The nightmare will be over eventually. Maybe we'll have a "roaring 20's" again to celebrate. The history books of 2120 will tell the tale much like we read of the 1918 pandemic today. By then, the yearly excess deaths and the long term health issues by demographic will be better known. In 2040, we'll be asking if someone died of a heart problem or was it because they had Corona in 2020. |
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I'd rather have the 60s- same as the 20s, really! |
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