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martbri7 06-10-2016 11:48 AM

Waterfront dock question???
 
Purchased property on Squam Lake in January so still getting the hang of it... My question is the neighbors have a dock on there property that goes out 20 feet, no problems there. The dock has a raft off of it with a boat attached that goes 20 feet onto my side of property in the water, I know none owns the water but not sure if it's okay to do?

Thank you

feb 06-10-2016 12:26 PM

can't cross extended property line
 
I believe the rule is any part of their dock can't cross your property line as it extends into the water. I'm sure there are exceptions but I believe this is the general rule. I also believe if you have a small amount of waterfront and can't abide by this 20 ft setback you can apply for a waiver. Not sure if this applies to your situation.

Bear Guy 06-10-2016 01:10 PM

NH DES Permits
 
A quick read of this NHDES publication says new docks can't be placed within 20 feet of the imaginary property line that extends over the water, unless notarized permission is given from the adjacent property owner. More interesting is Figure 2 and associated text, which states the boat space (6' from dock) can never cross the imaginary property line in the water.
https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files...0-01/wb-19.pdf
Now, the OP is dealing with an existing dock, and not a new one, so grandfathering may occur. Plus there's the whole political issue of dealing with a neighbor; you might be able to make a legal case for a change but you still have to live next to that person, no matter how upset they are at you.

tis 06-10-2016 03:38 PM

Our imaginary property line crosses over to our neighbor's dock so we signed off so that they could replace their existing dock. Little did we know that the old dock put in by the previous owners was illegal. It isn't close to our property, it is just that our property line goes at an angle toward their property and within 7 feet (I think it was) of their dock.

fatlazyless 06-11-2016 05:20 AM

Maybe is best to talk with your neighbor, and solve the issue together? Does this ever happen?

Everyone has a long memory?

martbri7 06-11-2016 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 263424)
Maybe is best to talk with your neighbor, and solve the issue together? Does this ever happen?

Everyone has a long memory?

Yes we do have a open communication with our neighbors, but just wanted clarification on the situation from other members and see if they have had similar experiences and how they felt with it

fatlazyless 06-11-2016 09:53 AM

Maybe this could help in supporting your issue? If a wf property applies to the Marine Patrol for a mooring, the MP will look at the width of the frontage vs the overall swing of the moored boat. If the swing is longer than the frontage, and overlaps the next lot, the MP needs to receive the neighbors' ok before it will assign a mooring permit.

The Marine Patrol will make a house call and send an officer to visit your location to take a look-see. Could be time to call 911 ....... hellooooo 911 .... I want to report a rowboat that is interfering with my view ..... puhlease send over the VP .... that's the View Police ... so's this situation can be corrected asap - pdq ..... thankyou kindly and have a great day ..... my my my!:D:laugh:

BroadHopper 06-11-2016 10:56 AM

Squam lake Association
 
I do believe the association has rules and bylaws that property owners must follow, so check there.

If the dock is new, the state has strict regulations as to length and width of a dock. The numbers of fingers you can have is based on the number of water frontage. Of course if you are a state rep or have ties to one you can do just about anything you want. Believe me, the family been in and out of court with a neighbor on this one!

If the dock is old and grandfathered, you need to broker a deal with the neighbor. Look and see if there is any easement on the deed pertaining to this matter. It may be legit.

Not to Worry 06-11-2016 04:26 PM

Call Marine Patrol
 
I had a problem with a neighbour's mooring but before I talked to my neighbor I went to Marine Patrol. They pulled his permit and reviewed what was approved and what was not. Thier mooring was nowhere near where it had been approved and they were more than happy to enforce.

Armed with that info I was able to ask my neighbor if over time was it possible the wind was moving his mooring closer to my dock? We both know what we were talking about since he intentionally put it on top of me but he agreed that the wind indeed may have moved it and had it moved away from me.

My point is the make sure you understand from a legal standpoint where you stand before you enter the conversation. The forum may or may not provide information but you need more than opinions you need facts. Then again you could rely on FLL's post....NOT!

BTW: I tried to put a seasonal dock on my other side and my neighbor signed off on it but the town would not allow it. They said that my friends could not sign off on the rights of a future owner.

martbri7 06-11-2016 04:31 PM

I agree thank you again

Descant 06-11-2016 05:49 PM

Don't call Marine Patrol
 
Although they are service oriented and will come when you call, docks are the purview of the Department of Environmental Services and they are the appropriate authority. MP will come, be polite, and probably suggest you call DES. This issue is currently being studied by the Resources, Recreation and Development Committee in the NH House.

Some of the questions:
Should Temporary Seasonal Docks (TSD) be controlled by MP not DES? MP seems to always get the first call, and they respond.

Many states do not regulate TSD. One midwest state's flyer suggested if you have a problem, call an attorney.

How to handle coves and small lots where the lot line extensions cross in short order? (The mooring regs are one plan)

Doesn't the guy with 25 feet of frontage have the same dock rights as somebody with 200 feet? Or does the guy with 200 feet have more rights because he has more money invested and pays more taxes?

So your neighbor has to sign off on where I put my dock? Why should my neighbor have control over how I use my property?

On those lakes where you get a permit to install a mooring, you pay an upfront fee for MP to come look at the proposed location before you get the permit. The "permit by notification" process for TSD involves no fee. Who wants new feeds?

Not to be aimed at the OP, but DES says a lot of the situations exist for years until there is a change in ownership. Is that because the dock drifts closer that year, or does the new owner have different expectations than the previous owner?

The list goes on...

Descant 06-11-2016 05:56 PM

Rights of a future owner?
 
Quote:

BTW: I tried to put a seasonal dock on my other side and my neighbor signed off on it but the town would not allow it. They said that my friends could not sign off on the rights of a future owner.
I'm curious about that, especially since the State requires it under certain circumstances. Lots of deeds have restrictions on future use. Conservation easements, joint use of a driveway. Maybe the DES reg is faulty? Could you PM me with some details?

jeffatsquam 06-11-2016 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadHopper (Post 263434)
I do believe the association has rules and bylaws that property owners must follow, so check there.

If the dock is new, the state has strict regulations as to length and width of a dock. The numbers of fingers you can have is based on the number of water frontage. Of course if you are a state rep or have ties to one you can do just about anything you want. Believe me, the family been in and out of court with a neighbor on this one!

If the dock is old and grandfathered, you need to broker a deal with the neighbor. Look and see if there is any easement on the deed pertaining to this matter. It may be legit.

The Squam Lakes Assc. has no rules or bylaws that would have any say over what private property owners can do with their docks.

martbri7 07-29-2016 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Guy (Post 263409)
A quick read of this NHDES publication says new docks can't be placed within 20 feet of the imaginary property line that extends over the water, unless notarized permission is given from the adjacent property owner. More interesting is Figure 2 and associated text, which states the boat space (6' from dock) can never cross the imaginary property line in the water.
http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi...ents/wb-19.pdf
Now, the OP is dealing with an existing dock, and not a new one, so grandfathering may occur. Plus there's the whole political issue of dealing with a neighbor; you might be able to make a legal case for a change but you still have to live next to that person, no matter how upset they are at you.


So now the town says since the next doors illegal dock is grandfathered so it's allowed....sad to see my Mom get bullied..

ApS 08-01-2016 04:50 AM

Boulders or Other Obstructions a Problem?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by martbri7 (Post 263404)
Purchased property on Squam Lake in January so still getting the hang of it... My question is the neighbors have a dock on their property that goes out 20 feet, no problems there. The dock has a raft off of it with a boat attached that goes 20 feet onto my side of property in the water, I know none owns the water but not sure if it's okay to do?

Offer to move the raft (and boat) to the other side of the dock. :idea: Pay someone if that move is beyond your capabilities.

Throw-in mooring whips (and new mooring lines) to sweeten the deal. :love:

.

martbri7 08-15-2016 12:14 PM

I understand that a grandfathered raft is okay but can a boat be grandfathered that attaches to the dock that is on and over our imaginary line ?


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