Where are the statistics...
For the "normal", yearly flu? We all got shots for.
The "normal" flu season kills anywhere from 30K to 65K people per year? Historically. Where are the separate statistics for those cases? I'm thinkin' you can't trust China and you can't trust USA statistics...Actually you can't trust anyone in an election year with a major health issue, or even a minor issue. Most people will make their decision in November on mailers they get within one week of the vote. |
"Since January, the CDC reported more than 5,000 influenza-associated deaths."–"
source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...al/3044888001/ |
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This posting should be placed in the COVID-19 section or some political section. Want to debate the gubmint? Want to debate the "flu" to COVID-19? Hoaxes? Conspiracy Theories? Obtuse web blogs claiming all sorts of disjointed data, statistics, opinions? |
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I agree on the statistics being misunderstood and/or manipulated, especially since so many of the deceased were not tested before or after they died. One set of important numbers are the total incremental deaths this year. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ng-deaths.html |
This is a head scratcher
Read this statement from someone in Mass today:
“If masks work, why do businesses need to be closed? If they don’t work, why are we forced to wear them?” Excellent point. |
leadership
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the vast majority have no idea of basic science and are oblivious to the point of gloves or masks. all this in addition to handling cash, touching atm or credit card key pads door handles, etc. whenever I cut up raw meat I first put hot bleach water in the sink ready to wash my hands, knife and cutting board. Show me 5 people who do the same at home or even think of it. It's no coincidence that studies have shown one of the dirtiest things in most homes is the refrigerator door handle. having said all that, being cautious is fine but most people are not nearly as safe as they think they are and yet we are still not dropping like flies. I think eventually we are going to find out nearly everyone has already been exposed. |
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The other item that sometimes comes in first is the cell phone. One study years ago stated that 21% of all cell phones has human feces on it. Anyone ever wash their cell phone ??? |
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of course reusable grocery bags are vectors for filth as well, because no one ever washes them. I'm not saying do nothing. what I am saying is the laksidasical way people are using this stuff is little better than nothing but the numbers are still mostly dropping. I have seen numerous store credit/debit pads with plastic over the keys. What's the point? Everyone is still touching the same plastic. The drive thru clerk at mcdonalds is handling my drink, food bag and everyone's cash with the same gloves on. Spread is un stoppable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQE...ature=emb_logo |
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It is like getting a flu shot...it does not guarantee you won’t get the flu but it makes it less likely and if it makes it less likely for you to get the flu, it is less likely you will give it to someone else. Win/Win. Wearing a mask may, but probably does not, protect YOU from getting Covid. But, the absolute, professional consensus is that wearing a mask does make it less likely to spread it to someone else. As does social distancing. Win/Win. The decision apparently has been made that it is more important to open the economy than to protect the most vulnerable who are either sick or old. Even though I am old, this could be a defensible position. But it is only morally defensible IF everybody wears a mask and practices social distancing. This is how you open the economy and best protect the most vulnerable. |
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Agree. If you ask me to wear a mask and everything will open then I will. But, if you tell me too and keep everything closed. It’s a no. My body, my choice! Sound familiar?
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BUT, judging by the large numbers of people who do not wear masks, most of these do not truly understand why they should wear one, or they believe they look stupid in them, or it is inconvenient. All kinds of excuses not to wear them. Or, it is because of the present contentious political climate ( not a lifelong matter of principle). There is almost no valid excuse for our elected officials to decline to wear them. Excepting those with long-standing contrarian principles. |
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On the other hand, I have had discussions with people who, on principle, are opposed to abortion and I can respect them and their opinions. As far as the mask issue...are you saying you will only wear a mask if there are no restrictions whatsoever on opening up? If so, I just don’t understand that position and I’ll leave it at that. Of course, there are differences in the speed and method we should open up. I don’t get the all or none argument...for the most part we are talking about the best way to move forward, not rigid dogma. |
Masks help the economy
In my point of view, those that aren't wearing masks are slowing down the economic recovery. In the lakes region, there are a lot of businesses open. When I go into one and see the employees and customers without masks, me and likely others are not likely to be going back soon. I wear a mask on the slim chance that I have the virus without symptoms, because this virus has that nasty catch to it. That way, when I breath, talk, cough or sneeze, the bulk of the blast is contained in the mask. I don't expect the mask to protect me if I end up in a virus laden place. To me, a mask says "I'm helping open things up".
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Of course the people that are wearing masks are not all sick. They are doing it to protect others. |
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If so, there are a lot of people in the area who are sick or believe they are who are out shopping at Heaths. I don’t always agree with what you write but it usually makes sense to me. If this is the only reason you don’t wear one, perhaps reevaluate it. |
If you are sick or believe you are sick you should not be out infecting others. Period! That is one rule everyone follow. If you believe you are at risk then do what you must to protect yourself. However, many others should not be asked to risk everything they have achieved and isolate so a few can possible avoid illness
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But why is it only on me? I would like to go back to my normal life, but too many people like you tell me that I’m taking away your freedom. And why do you suppose that I am not financially affected by what is happening in the economy? And maybe I am at an age that I won’t be able to recover like someone younger might be able. |
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Let the "healthy" people go out. To restaurants, malls, parties, bars, etc. And just make sure the "sick" ones stay home. Except. No one knows if that healthy person is asymptomatic. Infecting everyone around them, |
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So let me ask my original question, maybe answered without diversions about masks. What are the ACCURATE statistics for influenza deaths this year? Let me add this...Compared to last year and the year before? |
Read this and comment please...
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Is this what you are looking for?
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2017-2018
We had a severe flu epidemic of severe proportions.
Did you hear anything about it until now, or ever? |
It appears are two sets of numbers at your link
The "original" estimates from 2018, in the body of the text.
Then at the top there is a yellow box that seems to lead to updated numbers for the 2018 season. Do you want comments on the higher numbers from 2018, or the revised lower numbers that came out later? |
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CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 48.8 million illnesses, more than 22.7 million medical visits, 959,000 hospitalizations, and 79,400 deaths during the 2017–2018 influenza season. This burden was higher than any season since the 2009 pandemic and serves as a reminder of how severe seasonal influenza can be." From the CDC. |
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Covid-19 has been with us for only several months and the death toll has now exceeded in that short amount of time the yearly death toll from the regular flu. Let's wait until early 2121 to compare the yearly death tolls, shall we? The deaths from Covid-19 will certainly far exceed that of the regular flu when the one year period ends in 2121. |
Wipes
I decided to look up wipes because the news has been so insistent on 60-70% alcohol.
We've been using (primarily) Lysol and Clorox wipes- also some lower profile brands- as long as we had plenty, we felt good. Now I find that most of these are ALCOHOL FREE, but have a bunch of other fancy sounding ingredients in them. Crap! My solution was to buy bottles of isopropyl/rubbing alcohol (70%-$2.50/32.oz.) and pour it in to my wipes containers- swish it around- apply. They come out soaking!- but make me feel better. Make any sense? Where and what kind of manufactured alcohol wipes are you finding that are in stock- price/per 50-100, whatever? I don't mean to go in to are they even necessary- just asking. |
All the touch points make me crazy. To get out of home Depot the other day I had to touch the scanner gun, the touch screen and the card reader. I'm sure glad they had Plexi panels all around each self checkout station so maybe I couldn't breathe on someone. You have to touch the doors in most places to get in/out. I think fixing these will do 10x the good of masks.
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Make your own
Google making hand sanitizer. We looked at it early on, and if memory serves me right, it is isopropyl alcohol and aloe.
Dave |
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So, what do we learn from this...
I ask the question?
Please look at the original post |
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Statistics Found Here
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
Estimated Deaths per Season - USA 2010-2011: 37,000 2011-2012: 12,000 2012-2013: 43,000 2013-2014: 38,000 2014-2015: 51,000 2015-2016: 23,000 2016-2017: 38,000 2017-2018: 61,000 (Preliminary Estimate) 2018-2019: 34,157 (Preliminary Estimate) Avg Seasonal Fatalities: 37,461 |
Ever heard the expression...
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https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2766121
I do not know if this link will work. It is a discussion from the Journal of the American Medical Association about why comparing Covid and Flu statistics is inaccurate and not helpful. I am not arguing; but this might be useful to those interested if the link works. If it does not, let me know and I will delete the post. Don’t want to add to the confusion. |
Link worked
Link worked and it is an interesting read.
Thanks for sharing Dave |
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https://www.seacoastonline.com/news/...pandemic-in-nh |
We are asked to wear a mask to protect others. In Shaw’s today I saw three individuals no mask going the wrong way down each lane that are and I will be kind “very large”. If we assume they are “at risk individuals” why must I wear a mask if they are unwilling to help themselves.
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Speaking of statistics.....director of Health and Human Resources said yesterday that not a single healthy person has died of COVID in NH
80% were in long term care facilities and the rest were people who were compromised. COPD,asthma,diabetes and high blood preasure put you at greater risk. |
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The problem is that I find it hard to believe anything I read. I am definitely not a conspiracy theorist, but perhaps not believing anything has been the purpose all along. Although Samiam is basically correct, there is still a great deal we do NOT know about the novel coronavirus and low risk people including children DO die of the disease. What we do not know is still, to me, the most concerning part of the pandemic. |
High Risk Population
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Of course, you can be both old and fat. |
Excellent article in today's Times describing how an earlier lockdown would have saved tens of thousands of people. A couple of things occur to me:
1) NH, due to its remote location, shut down earlier in its cycle than NY and Mass. So this is consistent with Sam's point. 2) As different states reopen at different speeds, we can see whether models like this are basically correct or incorrect. If these models/stats are worthwhile, we should expect to see fast openers (Georgia?) experience higher growth in the months to come. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/u...ng-deaths.html |
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spread
Now the CDC is saying Covid-19 is not spread easily from surfaces or objects. If thats true that could go a long way to opening things up.
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The key is social distancing: avoid coming in contact with anyone less than six feet away. Can't do that in planes, concerts, games, most restaurants. OK for big box stores, car dealers: businesses with lots of room and the ability to truly maintain AND ENFORCE necessary social distancing. |
mask/gloves
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As far as the movie drama some are trying to make this: No, people are not dropping the streets. They are however dying in hospitals after what can be a horrible period of illness. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-h...virus-florida/ |
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Perhaps the complainers simply have zero concept about what business owners are going through as we continue lose income (2.5 months and counting, people) because we've sacrificed to help everyone by staying home while losing business and money. And not one of those people asking us to continue sacrificing will turn around and sacrifice a thing to help business owners financially. Not a one. Nobody has offered to sacrifice for ME by taking over my mortgage payments for the last 2.5 months. Nobody has offered to pay off MY vehicle to thank me. So....if you are elderly or just afraid, then stay home. Same if you're immune compromised in any way. Just stay home and be safe and then you have no worries. And please accept that the rest of us need to get back to work. Because someone has to earn money to pay taxes to keep the government funded AND keep feeding social security and the other programs many of the complainers rely on. I wish you all good health. GB |
These posts remind me of an interesting article I read today that pointed out one of the ironies we're in--plenty of people with no expertise at all are completely confident they know the right answer or see the government's flaws very clearly, yet all of the epidemiologists preface their remarks by saying that there are many things we do not know.
Maybe we all need to step back and acknowledge that we're learning this stuff real-time |
When I have no knowledge...
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Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Too many people I've know have always assumed "Everything will be OK". without the knowledge to make such an assumption. The next months, years and decades will disect this event. Exposing the corruption that is occurring, the false news for political/financial gain, false science based on grants, ignorance, arrogance, ya d de ya de ya! |
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You got a check for $1200.00 recently, didn't you? My tax dollars at work. |
Basically, all the experts are just guessing....we really have no base line to use for comparison....this whole event has been fly by the seat of your pants trial and error. And, always remember, we only get the information the government wants us to know. I'm no conspiratorialist, but I can't help that we aren't getting the whole story....just saying....
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Statistics...
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Nobody will die of heart attacks, flu, strokes, cancer, etc....during that period. (snark) |
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Nice try, but NO. Not a dime from the government in any way, shape or form. So I, along with YOU, get to see MY tax dollars at work. No stimulus check. No SBA help. Nothing. Oh, we asked about the SBA loans through our bank but the money was gone fast. And no PPP because we are self-employed. So again, ZERO assistance received from ANY government entity or person. |
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I was talking to someone who said they got paid twice. |
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