Boating Safety on NH Water Bodies
 

One common complaint that keeps coming up regarding Lake Winnipesaukee and boating safety is the 150’ safe passage rule. This seems to be one of the most heavily committed offenses on the lake. I do believe that things have gotten better since the requirement of boating certificates, but there is certainly room for improvement.

How is an out of state boater or even a New Hampshire resident supposed to know about this and the other safety laws? Does a NH resident get information while registering their vessel?

When we drove by the ramp in Alton Bay, we looked at the sign next to the ramp and there didn’t seem to be any information regarding the 150’ safe passage rule or the requirement for boaters to have a certificate. Wouldn’t the public ramps be an excellent place to post the 150’ safe passage rule as well as the requirement of a boating certificate? This could make the lake a safer place to be.

RG,

I do believe you bring up a valid point. How does one know when visiting an out of state body of water for the first time. And now lets add a further thing into the mix, the speed limit which is only applicable to Winnipesaukee.

I think the problem with posting at the ramps is that not all ramps have good posting facilities. And even then you have to hope people read the information posted. I not saying this doesn't work because I believe it does, I just don't know to what degree. And then there is the issue that not all ramps have a posting area.

Now personally I like some aspects of what Maine has done. They make you get a "use decal" if you come in from out of state. I have no idea how much these cost but I can't believe it is a huge charge. When you get the decal they have the opportunity to inform you of the Maine specific laws(whether they do or not I don't know). Now as far as getting the word out about needing the decal, I know there is a sign on 95 and I believe also on other major routes bringing people into the state and especially to the major inland water areas.

But when it comes right down to it, this all comes back to how much people prepare for there vacations. Not that long ago, you didn't think to much about hauling your boat to another state and dropping it the lake. However now with safe boating certificates etc. More people are starting to realize how different the boating laws are state to state. So you are left with your capt. Boneheads, that are just going to do what they want and not look into the laws for where they are headed. And the "Good Skippers" that will take a few minutes and look online to see what a different state has for special laws when they take their boat to visit.

I'd agree, having a prominently-displayed sign would be a great idea. It's a pretty basic rule, along with NWZ's, which are also frequently violated around the country.

In addition to that, education on the water is a great thing. Without resorting to tickets/warnings, the MP could pick several weekends this summer (busier the better), to pull over those that violate these two rules. Have a nice, Friendly/civil discussion one on one with the boaters. Explain the rules, how they broke them, and why they are in place.

I know it takes time, but in the end, the MP is the Department of Safety. There is no better way to build good rapport & understanding than to meet a well-meaning LEO who's job is to inform first, enforce second.

I was stopped by a Vt. State policeman once here on a secondary highway. I honestly didn't see the 40 mph sign entering a small town, so the blue lights went on. He and I talked, and he mentioned that three people had been injured near this area in the past few months. I told him I didn't see the sign at all, and the area didn't even look inhabited.

He asked if I would write him a letter concerning my experience there, and how they could best calm down traffic and better prepare people for the upcoming intersection. He gave me his name and home address to send it in. Bid me a good day and off we went.

I left that stop with not only greater awareness, but with a great feeling about what part of the LEO's job should be. I'll never forget it, and it's probably changed the way I look at all LEO's, although not all are that courteous. Interactions like that one on the lake would go a long way over time towards educating people as to what the rules are, and Why they are rules.

Afterthought. This would be a great message via public gatherings for SBONH to endorse. A real public service, that would promote good will and education.

I think the Lakes Region Power Squadron placed markers 150 feet off the docks and did some type of posting. Maybe the markers are not in yet?

150' Markers
 

The former NHRBA have placed 150' markers off the major public docks on the lake. I don't know who is maintaining them, or maybe that is the problem? NHRBA also posted no wake signs along the Weirs Channel.

The problem is education. Getting a temporary certificate when you rent a boat is a joke. Those that vacation for a week or two may bring their boat in and had the required safety course in their respective state does not mean they are aware of our 150' rule. I think taking the basic NH safety course and receiving a sticker to display on the boat is an excellent idea!

The sticker you describe is unoffically known as the "milfoil sticker". It costs $20 and comes with a pamphlet that educates how to stop the spread of invasive plant species, but does not include any instruction on any other Maine marine laws. I buy mine at the town hall where I own my vacation property. Public ramps on lakes that don't yet have invasive species issues are often attended by invasive plant inspectors. Sadly, these inpectors do not sell said stickers, which I think is really dumb. I think it's silly to have an inspector that can turn you away for not having a sticker, but can't help you get one on a Sunday morning...

There aren't that many launch sites on Winni, so having a sign the size of the infamous Braun Bay NR sign would be pretty basic. Instead of some silly sticker, use some of the Public Service announcements on TV to get the basic message across. I think it's had a positive impact on early season fishing/PFD awareness. The new NY law for PFD's got widespread coverage on television and radio.

But there's really no replacement for first hand communication. One of my jobs is to point out things I think are obvious, but most do not. Last year on Winni had some stops for speeding in a NWZ, 41 warnings were issued, 9 were cited with a summons. Not astounding data by any measure, but accidents throughout NH waters were up. With limited resources and budget trouble, I would try to limit stops to those that are so obviously breaking one of these two rules. Cut down on courtesy inspections, or charge a fee. Directly focus on the problem areas.

Now is an excellent time to do the courtesy inspections, since summer is a way's off, and so are the busiest weekends. Perhaps they have already moved in this direction, I don't know. But I'd gladly give up random inspections and boarding to concentrate on the troublemakers. Note: As I stated above, some people just don;t know the rules, and need a freindly instruction from a happy to share LEO:D I don't consider them boneheads nor trouble makers just to be clear.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse!

It is not the responsibility of society to tell you what you CAN'T do on the water. It is the responsibility of the boater to know what he CAN do on the water.

Boat Ramp Signs
 

I agree with you BI. There are still so many boaters out there that do not seem to know or understand about the 150' safe passage rule. Signs would help, wouldn't it?

It wouldn't even be so bad if they would stay more than 20' away, let alone the required 150'! I agree there are way too many people who don't obey this rule. I don't see what harm a sign would do. But as I have said before, I know people who took the course and didn't obey it. For some reason people don't get it.

Signs will help
 

If a RESPONSIBLE boater is not aware of the 150' rule. it's the IRRESPONSIBLE boater that needs to be caught before something serious happens. No matter what laws are on the books, irresponsible boaters will do what they want to do. These are the ones that are giving boating a bad name. This reality is not limited to boating. Look around you!

As the boating population increases, so does the irresponsible population. And visa versa. It would be nice if this was not the case.

BI, this goes beyond ignorance of the law! This is more about an issue of OUR safety on the water. This is the one law that actually has contributed to keeping NH one of the safest in the country. I could CARE LESS if some idiot is stopped for violating the law. I hope they are stopped for it. My concern isn't about educating them so they don't get a ticket???? My concern is the safety of my family, yours and anyone else using the lake.

So yes EXCELLENT point raised here, what are we doing to educate the casual users of NH waterways?

If you live in the State of Maine -or- register your boat here, they actually have started tacking on the "milfoil education" fee onto the registration.

If anyone thinks Winni is unsafe, they need to boat on Sebago on a busy weekend. There is no safe passage rule/law and open exhausts are permitted in Maine as well. I like the 150 rule personally, but I think the violations being wide-spread are not some huge problem on Winni with the exception of the Weirs area on Sat/Sun.

I always thought it would be helpful to have MP at different ramps during the summer to gently remind or educate boaters on some of the basic rules of the water. The 150' rule, speed limit, and right of way would be good starting points. It would also be good PR work for the officers.

An effective way to educate is to include things on the registration paperwork or a pamplet along with it as you can get multiple points made.

As far as visiting boaters, the State could print out pamplets that the lauch ramp operators could pass out.

Speed limit debate is taboo so I'll bite my tongue.

150 foot markers
 

I was at the docks in Alton Bay and watched the Marine Patrol deploy the markers. I believe it was actually Lt. Dunlevy who was wielding the measuring device, which looked like the laser distance measuring device I have for golf.

And RG, I would respectfully disagree that this rule is being adhered to better. I find it to be no better and probably worse than when I first got my boat in 2003. And I do not see very many people reading the signs at the Alton Boat ramp. They simply pull in and launch their boat and leave.

Originally posted by BIWhile you are correct doesn't it make sense as a boater on Lake Winnipesaukee to try to make sure that out of staters that come from places without a Safe Passage law are aware of the law before heading out onto NH waters and endanger your life and mine?

Or we could just put on your tombstone...
Originally posted by KDL
While that would be a good idea, they are operated the entire statewide department with 60 some odd officers last summer, a number that has dropped from over 100 in recent years. If they are standing on the boat ramps they aren't doing the other things that have up until 2009 kept NH the safest waterways in New England. Perhaps the Marine Patrol Aux, if they are still in operation, could do something like that, but I doubt they have many members either.

judging the distance
 

Ok, with all the talk about 150 feet, can anyone really judge the distance correctly. :confused:
I try and stay as far away as possible, but i am sure one can not judge the difference between 100 and 150 feet when you are out on the water.

any thoughts?

I have a 22 foot boat on Winnipesaukee, so I try to keep at least 10 of my boat lengths away from everything so that I know I am beyond the 150' with some margin of error.

golf helps
 

150 feet equals a 3/4 lob wedge, 50 yard shot. Of course, I just hope I don't put it (the boat) in the sand like I do the golf ball. :rolleye1:

Seriously, I think I tend to add 20-30 yards to the distance on the water...my 150 is probably closer to 200 feet than it is to 150.

Everyone probably has their own method for determining 150' - you already heard about the lob wedge above. Mine has to do with football - when I played in high school, I was a quarterback and could throw a ball 50 yards (150 feet). So if I think I could possibly reach another boat with a football, it is less than 150 feet.

EXCEPT for The Example Below, a "Throwable" Safety Device...
 

With the newer recreations of "board-skiing" and "board-surfing", my old two ski-rope-lengths can come up "short".

Try 10 canoe-lengths, or 10 Sunfish sailboat lengths. (At normal speeds, a fair distance).

1) Let's not put this all on the backs of flatlanders: except for fishing boats, the majority of boats on Lake Winnipesaukee are registered in New Hampshire. A few years ago, NH boat registrations had a line to sign on _____John Doe_____ where you "acknowledged" a new rule.

2) Boat-Ed.com refers to New Hampshire's law as, "UNsafe Passage". (As I've always seen it).
http://www.boat-ed.com/nh/handbook/oper.htm

3) Included with Boat-Ed.com on New Hampshire's special rules—was this image:

http://www.boat-ed.com/images/drawin..._the_stern.jpg

(New to me).

4) As I suggested here to NHRBA (or any of today's safe-boating organizations) can sponsor or donate a seat cushion emblazoned with navigation's "Rules of the Road" — plus New Hampshire's Unsafe-Passage rule.

(And any other rules :eek2:).

5) Except for rendering a swimmer unconcious—or use as a paperweight—this 30-pound seat cushion's usefulness disappeared decades ago. (Beat-up, torn, squirrel-chewed, duct-taped then waterlogged :emb: ).

These cushions have alerted many a seasoned boater, and below is an example of what guided NH's civil boaters in the 60s—and maybe earlier than that.

If received upon each NH registration, these Rules of the Road seat cushions (a "throwable safety device") can be made to happen again: :look:

LP, I think you are on to something here. About 10 years ago, when you registered your snowmobile, you had to sign or initial the back of the registration (in addition to your signature on front). The signature on back indicated that you had read the information that was printed regarding OHRV Operating Under the Influence (OUI) laws.

They could easily do the same on the back of marine registrations. Having the person sign it makes them responsible for the knowledge of the info printed there.

Judging exactly what is 150ft!

Many of us have driven water skiier's or pulled a tuber

Another way to look at it and judge, which is the way I was taught and currently teach my kids -- maintain (at least) two ski-line lenghts from another craft or object and you'll be fine. Is this again subjective - of course -- but 9 out of 10 times MP is not measuring to the "inches" (barring a few Rambo's out there). The majority of the issues, but certainly not all, come when powering up after a NWZ --- especially the Wiers chanel - eithor side! Think of how many times someone has come right up your stern and flew off leaving a NWZ as opposed to "open water" issues. And I am NOT here to say open water issues don't occur .... their simply rarer.

With regard to posting the rule or any other rule at ramps or wherever ....... how many people actualy read those? None the less - it is the resposibility of the Captain to know the local and State rules wherever he/she boats. No different from driving a car here or abroad.

While launching at Glendale a few years ago, I was talking with MP and they had a good suggestion for judging 150 feet. It's about the distance where you can just about make out the bow numbers on vessel in your immediate area. If you require glasses, I'd suggest wearing them for this method.

1 and a half if by land, 3 if by sea ...
 

I find people can be trained to recognize a distance but not many distances. If you're driving down the highway at a semi-legal 68 mph then that's 100ft/second. Find a crack or something and count (slowly) how long it takes to get to you. When you find the distance that equals 1.5 seconds then that's about 150'. When on the water most poeple are running in the 30-35 mph range so double the timing to get the same distance. Just do this when not too much else is happening so you don't run into anything in the process.

As to signs ... I thought I've seen them at the Alton town docks but as was said most people don't pay attention to the signs. The buoys off the docks are a good idea if only because someone might ask "what are those for ?".

I imagine most of us really aren't bothered by someone halving the 150' rule, as long as they are safe about it and do it out of necessity, not just to do it. I know I don't mind passing closer than 150 feet in tight quarters like deep into Moultonborough Bay. It's pretty clear the boaters coming the other way don't mind either as niether of us drops off plane while keeping to the far right... It's the blatent infractions of a couple of boat lengths or less when I'm at headway speed or less, or complete disregard for give-way or stand-on rules that I find worrisome.

Agreed.... there are areas of the lake where it is obvious how people are heading....say the six pack....which is wide enough if boats go to the extreme right side to pass by on plane.... now this assume only two boats one going each way, and are both going respectable speeds.

I have also scooted around bass fishermen giving them as much room as possible knowing that it wasn't exactly 150' but it was all I could spare.... I don't think they minded as I always get a friendly wave.... An acknowledgment, that they know, I have tried my best to give them as much room as possible. Kept my speed reasonable, and operated in a safe a prudent manor.

It always has been, I agree 100%. But I was trying to offer solutions to a problem, which I think is more beneficial to boaters than citing laws and responsibilities. If it were not a problem, there would be no need for this discussion, which has been brought up many times.

The poor MP has seen their responsibilities mount, and had their staffing cut budgets strained. In the long run, it's advantageous, and extremely cost-effective to deal with these fairly simple issues by direct contact and education. I don't mean the Boater Ed course, which I think is not quite what it's cracked up to be.

The costs of implementing what is primarily a weekend program is extremely small. Obviously, you target the trouble spots, and not blanket the state if not needed. It's really about time people put their money where their mouth is. A fairly simple program like this doesn't take away much in the way of existing resources, and specifically targets the two most prominent problems on many bodies of water. It might actually target another of the top three problems indirectly.

I've heard mostly jabbering about safety and violations over the last few years, but whenever support for the MP comes up, it gets stalled.

Let me question where the problem lies. Are the majority of violations due to experienced Winni boaters or are most due to out-of-state trailer boaters ? I'll guess it's really the former. Signs aren't going to fix this ... if true. As for stops ... I see the NHMP make a lot of 150' stops most weekends just off Sandy Pt. If it's helping I don't see it. I suspect most know the rule but just don't follow it. In some cases (as has been said) an infraction is just a mere technicality. In a lot of the stops I see above, it really wasn't (a technicality), due to the amount of local traffic. Some people just turn off their brain when they turn on the ignition key. You need to find another way to break through to them and I'm not sure what it is. Perhaps hand out an amusing DVD of stupid boater goof-ups with every stop. People might learn while making fun of others ???

Boating Safety on NH Water Bodies
 

Determining 150' is difficult for most, but I have a way, at least I can judge.

As a water-skiing fmaily, I know that a standard water-ski rope is exactly 75'.
That being said, I just picture twice that distance ! I can usually ball-park it close enough. Works for me!

FMI, how could a NHMP make that 150' judgement anyway ? Do they have some type of electronic devices they're using which can measure accurately 'distance' ?

BD

Well actually now they do --- sorta -- the new handheld lazer/radar units they have been using also yield a "range" from target. Not the cleanest way as it's distance from unit to object - but none the less a way (electronicly). Prior to that and for the most part currently it's done the old fashion way ... subjective!!

Judging distance on the water is much harder than on land IMO. 150' is only 50 yards, not very far. When we were out on the Naswa boat last summer, a tourist was asking me if the boats around us were far enough away, as the skipper had mentioned the rule to them. I said the boats at that time were about 100 yards away (a sand wedge if you will) :laugh:

People in small crafts tend to think big boats are too close. I think it's far more important to judge safe passage when boats are closing in opposite directions, or there's a crossing path involved. At that point, I throw out the 150' and plot a course that takes me further away to allow for adjustments if needed.

It's not really that hard to keep a 150' distance in most areas. The thing I see a lot more boaters doing now is to plot a course and stick to it, without regard for anything else. No course adjustments for oncoming boats, just dead ahead with their line. I try to be aware at all times of what's all around me, particularly from the sides. I also try to make course adjustments well ahead of time.

Many boaters need more time on the water, and need to be more aware that they aren't the only ones out there. Far too many people depend on the other boater to move out of the way for them, and many drive their boats as if on a two-lane highway in a straight line. A major part of the problem is lack of courtesy.

Great topic!
maybe a moored orange marker 150' off the ramp with a sign at the ramp.
wouldn't be used by all but it would draw some attention. ?
Steadyon

Instructive!
 

This IS a great thread! I am never going to be anything more than a passenger in a boat, but I have learned so much about boating I never dreamed about by reading the Forum. The old adage proves true once again:"no such thing as a stupid question". I wouldn't have "dared" to ask, here, how you judge 150 feet! I am terrible at judging distance (so it's good I won't be the pilot...for this and all too many other reasons!!), but it is a relief to know that is a legitimate problem/question for some!

I am a HUGE fan of the 150' rule.... but people need to be a bit realistic!

Tourism is this states bread & butter... we spend millions each year trying to entice people to visit. Yet we pass somewhat silly rules & regulations and dont tell them!

The state of NH requires a Safe Boaters Certificate. NH is the only state that has a 150' safe passage law as it pertains to boat vs boat situations. Nowhere is this posted on the highways, informational brochures, boat launches, marinas etc... this needs to common knowledge to tourists! I have been forever touting a sticker requirement for boats! $5 bucks gets you a sticker and a brochure outlining the rules! This way we can reduce the ignorance and make sure the knowledge is passed to the people who need it!

As for the 150 rule... its great! I tend to give everyone a wide a berth as possible! That being said I dont get pissed if they come within 60-75 feet of me. In no way are they "danger close" as far as I am concerned. You nannies want an eye opener? Go boat on the ocean! No 150' rule, huge monster wakes, rip currents etc! on its worst day Winni is very tranquil compared to the ocean!

Woodsy

Woodsy;

You are so true in the statement above. I recently came back from a trip to Turks & Caicos. We were on a chartered boat near one of the busiest areas of the beach. All kinds of boats zipping by, not only next to other boats but by people in the water!! They have no rules such as this. When I made mention of the 150' rule we have on Lake Winnipesaukee up in "Newhampsha", the boat Captain looked at me like I had two heads. I asked him how many accidents had occurred with other boats or people and he replied none that he knew of, only a couple of groundings on the reef nearby and those were by larger vessels not pleasure craft boats.

Go figure!

Dan

R.i.t.b.
 

Is that my cue for my yearly rant about people coming down the "wrongside" of the bay regardless of what their course does to oncoming boaters ? In any case Winni is a less nervewracking microcosm of the driving behavior seen on our streets. It's not "my way or the highway", now the saying goes "it's my highway, get outta the way". Sadly I see this boating 'tude with all sorts of craft and across all age groups. My horn is on the fritz so this year I really am going to rig up a big fart-sounding horn (and mebbe that stink bomb tosser) to let people know what I think about their boating etiquette.

As for informing boaters of the rules ... I recall an idea from the olde days. We could have "Burma-Shave" signs on all the numbered bouys and town docks. Each would have a witticism that would stick in peoples minds. We could have a contest, you have to photo all 80+ signs, win a prize (not shaving creme). So what would be a good 150' reminder ... :idea:

APS had a good idea but in keeping up with the changing times ... we could have can kozzies made with a "rule of the road" on 1 side and some Winni related pic on the other. The NHMP could sell them at all the local stores, mebbe even make a profit. A sure hit at all the sandbars. ;)

"As for informing boaters of the rules ... I recall an idea from the olde days. We could have "Burma-Shave" signs on all the numbered bouys and town docks. Each would have a witticism that would stick in peoples minds. We could have a contest, you have to photo all 80+ signs, win a prize (not shaving creme). So what would be a good 150' reminder ... :idea:"


Okay, here's my contribution:

Don't be a fool
obey the 150 foot rule!

Sue

I personally think the best way to "educate" is by setting the example. I know I dont do everything correctly but I do observe how others handle certain situtations and when it looks like a good idea I tend to pick it up and also do it that way also.

A simple example might be coming down from plane well before the no wake bouy! Show others you care and how to do it and they might just follow your lead.

Same goes for Boston Hahbah on a hot, sunny weekend afternoon. It's like that scene from Caddy Shack. Yet how many accidents do you hear about? 0.

Where is the 6 pack
 

I thought I knew most of the lake but Where is the 6 pack? The one in the lake.

FL...

I always thought the six back is by FL58 on the back side of Long Island... East Point

Woodsy

That's what I'd say it is. 3 red and 3 black buoys demarking the channel.

Sorry Woodsy --- not quite accurate .....

Mass has the same 150' boat law and I would suspect that a largest percentage of "guests" visiting the Lake are from Mass (as I am).

Not critiquing ... simply letting members know it's the Law down here too!
.
.
.

Webster Lake
 

Interesting. I boat with friends on Webster Lake in Webster, Mass. I don't hear of it nor do I see it 'practiced'. I rarely see MP presence and I'm at a loss as to which side of the 'clorox' bottles I have travel. Folks call underwater hazards, 'sunken islands'. LOL!

The lake is so shallow, launching a good size boat quickly will hit bottom!

I think if you check the law in MA it is not operating a boat with 150' of the shore line or swimming beach not other boats.

Da rulz is karefuly thought out
 

... or a swimmer but you're correct, not other boats. VT is more similar to NH except theirs is a 200' rule. CT looks to be like MA but the rule is 100' and so far as I can tell ME has no similar rule at all. RI and NJ* ... fugetaboutit. ;)











*OK, OK so NJ is more like MA but with a 200' rule but that's not as funny is it.

200' is much harder to measure. I really don't have a club for that distance :eek: Hard lob wedge, very soft sand wedge. Perhaps a new law with a digital laser readout mounted in dash?

How about just maintaining a safe distance from objects and other boats, while keeping a good lookout?

Actually Maine does have a boating law that requires headway speed within the "water safety zone" which is 200 ft from shore. There is no law requiring distance from other boats above headway speed.

http://www.maine.gov/ifw/laws_rules/boatlaws.htm

If I'm going slower other wakes don't have a major impact on me. If I am going faster I make my course so I don't have to worry about jarring and getting beat too death.

NH is the exception with the 150 ft rule and you don't see wide-spread pandomonium by not having it in other states. This is a major part of why I don't see how any SL supporter would have a legitimate argument but whatever.

As I look, I cannot find any mention of boat to boat distance specified eithor ....... For the time being I stand corrected...

"Legislators loot navigation safety fund"; read all about it in today's page 8, May 28 www.laconiadailysun.com. Looking for money to pep up the lagging NH budget, the legislature stripped out money from a number of state agencies that were seperately funded, and the Marine Patrol's navigation safety budget that is funded by boat registration fees was transferred out to the general fund.

Is this good news, or bad news?:rolleye1:

you'll get your answer.
 

FLL

Go boating and hit a rock that is no longer marked for safety and you'll have the answer you're looking for.;)

ToW

Hummm,,,

Sure makes me happy that I go out of my way to register in NH to make sure that my funds are used to support boating on the waters I like to use the most,,,

My boating is split 50/50 between the Merrimack River in MA and Winnipesaukee and I always register one boat in NH even if its the only one I register that year as my expectation was that the funds went to support safe boating and public ramps in NH,,, So much for that idea,,, :mad:

the legislature giveth, the legislature taketh away.
 

One of the politicians during the SL debate says the MP is strapped for cash after a big budget cut. Now another $700,000 is cut. Looks like the resources to support the SL will not be there. I think Capt. Bonehead will rule the big lake.

Thank you! SL supporters!

Be careful what you wish for! :eek:

Good time to put the spotlight on gum-flapping versus concern. My guess is that those yapping about new laws won't spend a minute of thought about these cuts, nor do they really care.

Having attended all the hearings in Concord over the last few months I have to disagree with this. At the initial Senate hearing Hazelnut opined to the transportation committee about the law taking the MP "off task" from more important duties like enforcing BUI. At the end of this hearing David Barrett said to a few of us that he wished the opposition would stop using this tactic because he really didn't believe it was so. And many of us feel that the new law will be a good adjunct to our tools for enforcing the ever present problem of BUI. And BTW, there are many Capt. Boneheads who speed as well...I've seen them in action. Hence another tool to pull over Capt. Bonehead.

Not sure I understand when you say "I have to disagree with this" that the NH MP are strapped for cash, that they are facing an additional $700k budget cut, or that the previous two situations would result in a an inability to enforce the speed limits? :confused:

As for attending all the hearings on the SL, I have to be honest that I did not attend one, I'm not a resident and dont live within a hour of Concord, but I have been boating on Winnipesaukee since the days of White Gas and I have NEVER been in a speed caused boating accident, NEVER personally seen a speed caused boating accident myself, and NEVER seen anyone else at imminent risk of a boating accident from speed.

Sure I have seen folks that left me uncomfortable with the speed they were operating at, but then I have seen far more Capt Boneheads that left uncomfortable with their operation and they were NOT going fast.

When did we decide that feel good legislation, unsubstantiated but actual collision numbers, would make the waters of Winnipesaukee safer for all,,,

I think focusing on education of basic boating safety practices will do far more to improve boating safety than anything else we can do.

I would love to see this issue put into meaningful terms, number of collisions plotted against number of registered boats (annually).

I suspect that the numbers would be so low we would all be shaking our heads in disbelief as to how this issue ever got started.

I remain respectfully unconvinced that I am any safer then I was 5 years ago!

I'm guessing that I am at far more risk trailering my boat back and forth to Winnipesaukee than I am actually using it on the lake,,,

So how many "tools" are left in their bag when their budget keeps getting cut? I'm sure you raised your hand and asked for additional funding, no?

Like I said, some here "get it". Some are just gum flappers.

This kind of negative and petty rhetoric is why these threads are continually shut down. Lots of us "get it" and fortunately our legislators, by a wide margin in both houses, agreed. Get over it!

They can agree all they want. This topic started as a thread about the 150' Safe Passage rule. It has been stated recently that in addition to declining revenues targeted for the NH MP, another $700,000 will be cut from their budget. This is what I'm addressing, since I've been saying for some time their budget should be increased.

This is not "rhetoric" at all. You certainly don't have to involve yourself in any discussion of the budget cuts at all. However, and I'm being extra special Nice :liplick:, the budget cuts directly impact everything your favorite legislators have passed.

I think I'm being on topic, and certainly not negative.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse but
 

Hello Forum.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse but hiding the law is just plain stupid.

Why is there no mandated signage at each and every launch ramp with a select few of the important safety rules? :confused:

The 150 foot rule.
The speed limit law while it is in effect.
The water ski and observer ages, numbers and allowed times.
The driver age and safety certificate requirements.
The overnight anchoring prohibition.
The PFDs for kids and all passengers law.
The No Rafting regulations.
The sound and exhaust restrictions.

Just to name a few important bullet points.

Why make it hard for boaters to know the basic rules and then complain that they don't follow them then clamor to make up even more rules?

Is there any reason that these few important items are not posted at every private and public launch ramp? Why hide them?

I dont know either of you folks, but from what I can see this looks like a case of “the pot calling the kettle black”

You may not like VtSteve’s statement; “Like I said, some here "get it". Some are just gum flappers.” but your own response “Get over it!” is more harsh. So is this leading by example? :confused:

Unfortunately its your opening comment “This kind of negative and petty rhetoric is why these threads are continually shut down.” comes across as threatening. :(

Forums like this are created to allow people to share information and opinions. Yes it should be done respectfully, but your accusation leads me to believe you either don’t believe we are entitled to voice our opinions or that you consider any opinion that is contrary to yours as negative, and your response to either situation is to ratchet the tone up to make your point. Sounds like bullying to me,,, :mad:

The fact that we are talking about rules/laws and politicians is NO reason to stop discussing and debating any issue, if anything its more of a reason to vigorously debate the matter. :argue:

If the goal is safer AND more enjoyable boating, and for some of us limited government and taxes and fees, then the debate MUST continue. Hopefully respectfully and productively,,, :cheers:

Well that’s one boaters opinion, and more icons than I have ever used in one post. :D

That's OK XCR
 

I think the majority get my comment, and hope they don't view it as nasty or whatever. It's just plain common sense.

But it's a consistent argument. Those on the side of SNONH have consistently supported giving the MP the funds they need to properly do their job. It's ironic that those that always support more laws, make nasty comments everytime we mention the MP budget being cut.

Grownups can make up their own minds as to what that means.

I think this is a good idea, however if only a few "important" laws were posted at ramps etc, then people can claim ignorance. "But officer, the sign at the ramp didn't say anything about the law I broke". It is up to the person operating the boat to know the rules and regs of the waters they are operating their boat on.

Saying "get over it" more harsh as a response to "gumflapper"??? If you say so. Anyway, one more bit of gum flapping regarding budget cuts. Most NH residents and users of the lake are reasonable law abiding citizens. And if Memorial Day weekend is any indication, uncontrolled chaos has not erupted on the lake. I have kids out on the lake as well as in my car...glad no one is proposing abolishing speed limits on our roads and highways because of budget cuts in our police force. Or are they?:eek:

Not Many boats
 

Being on the lake on Sunday (80+ degrees and sunny), I think we commented on the lack of boats on the water for Memorial Day weekend at least a half dozen times. From the Weir's Channel to Johnson's Cove to Robert's Cove, crossing the broads side of Rattlesnake and into the Weir's Channel, hardly any boats to speak of.

In the time from Robert's Cove to the Witches we encountered no more than 20 boats. We were traveling less than 20 into the wind and waves with the canvas up to keep the girls and kids dry, so it took us quite some time at about 5:30pm.

Everywhere we went, we noticed a severe lack of boats on the water for what was a beautiful weekend, minus the smoke.

So if Memorial Day weekend is any indicator, this is going to be a very slow boating year.

Good point, and hopefuuly this could help to mitigate the effects of said budget cuts. I suppose the scenario is explainable...poor economy, fewer boaters, tax revenues down, budget cuts.

Jmen,

Have to agree, very few boats out there on Sunday. No cruising around for us with the rollers on the Broads, from dock to dock I was hummin the Gilligan’s Island theme.

There are a lot of empty slips at Parker Marine in Alton...... Seems like only a few years ago the place was full-tilt with boats.

Keep in mind that Sunday was extremely windy and very rough going on the lake. I heard multiple reports of waves crashing over the bow's of boats.

We also need to remember that the lake is an important part of the region's economy. The less boaters that launch on the lake, the less revenue for the area. So, while the MP presence on the lake is seriously reduced, the overall effect on the region is also impacted.
I'm pretty sure Winnfabs has solutions to both of these issues on their site...or not...

A corrolation of the nationwide (worldwide?) recession with Winnfabs seems tenuous and contrived at best, but I do know that two of the biggest hospitality players in the lakes region (Common Man and Inn at Mills Falls) and 12 marinas have endorsed WinnFabs efforts as being a plus for the economy. And with this economy we need all the help we can get.

Given the wind on Sunday. I was amazed how many boats were out. The Glendale area was packed and the Meredith docks area was also crowded.

Lots of small boats out on a day that the wind would have made me nervous. Plus it's getting hard to see some of those markers in the chop. Why are some so short?

Lots of people seem to forget to follow the rules of the road when you are in a no wake area. I had a bow rider almost t-bone me at idle speed near the Meredith docks. Then a Baja crosses within two feet of my stern, I know the 150' rule doesn't apply at idle but leave a little room for error.

Monday was a slower day than I expected. The West Alton sandbar still had space around noon. The water is still too darn cold.

It's been brought up before. Lower boat traffic means less $$ spent in the region. When your goal is to rid the lake of big money, you sometimes get some unintended consequences, even if you claim to have it all figured out

I thought it was great to see the amount of boats out on the lake this weekend. Everyone seemed to be enjoying themselves. Given a few new boaters or maybe even some older boaters need a refresher course and have the cobwebs removed, but all in all most people were very courtious out there.

I personally enjoyed the wind. On my way over to visit another winni.com member I had to cross from Barber's Pole to Welch Island. There were some very nice rollers out there.. 2-4 footers.. I ate them up no problem but there were a few people out there that probably had bitten off more then they could chew.

I agree although you may be adhering to the letter of the law, common sense goes a mile. As an example when crossing under the Long Island bridge. I was behind a few boats. The second they felt they were 150 feet from the bridge they took off. Although legal they aren't giving any thought to the numerous boats rafted off to their right that now have to deal with their wakes. (yes thats right boats make larger wakes the slower they are going when plaining off ;)) I always try to wait until I am closer to the red marker much further out. This way you don't disturb someone else's great day.

My only pet peave this weekend really was the amount of people that would be in a narrow channel and are clueless to those behind them. On several occassions people just stopped for no reason, or changed course, or just cut right out. Please be aware of those behind you who are also crusing and may not have the same interest in a duck that you want to look at. :laugh:

Common sense and courtesey go a very long way so that laws don't need to be added.

Hogwash, it wasn't bad after a minute or two.:laugh:

I will agree that the wind and waves were big, we were in a 26 ft bowrider and some of those waves were timed just right to get a bunch of spray over the bow. That was the only day this weekend that I was out.:( propably contributed to the slow day, but my cousin was out on Saturday as well and noted that things were slow.

I went in the water every day this weekend, except Sunday. It was brisk but as Jmen says not too bad after a minute or two, that's how long it takes to go numb :eek::eek:

I used to tolerate the 2-4 rollers with my bow rider, the wife hated them. Once we stuffed the bow on Dad's cuddy so deep I though we would never come up. It never boring on Winnipesaukee:):)

Add this to signs at ALL launch Ramps
 

You are right Chipj29. I am new to posting here and need practice. I have been a long time lurker though. I should have added another line to the idea of a sign I suggested be posted at all boat launch ramps.

For a comprehensive list of rules and regulations see the Boater’s Guide of New Hampshire – A Handbook of Boating Laws and Responsibilities. The pamphlet is free and available at many marinas and marine supply outlets or on-line at: HTTP:// boat-ed.com/nh/handbook. which is HERE .

There is a limit to how much information you can put on a sign otherwise you could add another link to this site: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rule.../saf-c400.html

(this is not directed at Chipj29)
Don't hide the rules or make it hard to find them and then complain that visitors ignore those rules so let's make more laws. It's like a turtle that pulls it's head in it's shell so it doesn't see everything that is really going on and won't stick it's neck out to face reality!

I'm in favor of the ideals of the group Safe Boaters Of New Hampshire http://sbonh.org and have signed their petition.

Great idea
 

Hi Hammond,

To take your idea one step further, if MP is willing to give us enough copies of the handbook, SBONH could attach some weather tight boxes (like the real estate signs have sometimes) and fill with handbooks at some of the key public ramps.

Very good idea... I know that SBONH members will be sporting a new sticker. If they could get booklets as well perhaps make them available to anyone who asked. Just a thought.

NHRBA Safety Placard
 

I have a copy of a placard of simple boating rules that was handed out at public docks one summer. It is plastic and can be kept on a boat without water damage. I will bring it to the SBONH meeting as another idea to promote safety.

I have yet to see any effort from WINFABS to promote boaters safety. Do they only have one agenda? :(

Do you know who handed them out? And where we can get some?

It isn't surprising... It is the same as those people who post only on one subject here, only one agenda.

Great ideas!

I'll bet half the time when people complain about 150' violations the offending vessel is outside 150 feet. 150' isn't that far if you think about it but people get scared when other boats are at speed. i grew up boating in the ocean and people come alot closer at speed there than I see most of the time on the lakes.

I agree, just try to find a weekend day when you can get out the mouth of the Merrimack River and keep 150' from everyone and everything,,, :rolleye1:

Nothing like trying to dodge the guys anchored, the ones trolling, the ones running at full speed, and all while the tide is coming in or going out! Now thats a test of your boating skills!!! :D

I agree. 150' is not a very long distance. That's the width of a ty;ical runway. Pease used to be 300' wide! There's a marker off the Wolfeboro docks that's 150' out. It's very close to the docks. When someone is cranking and on a plane, 150' looks very close indeed.

While you are correct in that the mouth of the Merrimack is complete chaos on weekends, I am not sure there is a 150' rule there, as that area is in Massachusetts.

not only that but I believe this area will not fall under massachusetts state law but USCG regulations. While MA has a speed limit on its lakes and ponds (although many are not big enough to really need one) I am pretty sure they do not have the 150' regulation. I have actually not run into this regulation in all the states I have boated in on the east coast. Just NH... Which is suprising because I feel this is the one law that really does improve safety the most.

Nhrba
 

The defunct safety group, NH Recreational Boaters Association handed them out at public docks and during a membership drive. They were instrumental in establishing the no wake zone between Eagle and Governors Island. They also funded the 150' distance bouys that are located in front of public docks. You will see no wake zone signs along the Weirs Channel.

They also collected shrinkwrap from boaters for recycling one spring.

WinnFabs once claim that they will donate a number on lazer guns to the Marine Patrol. I have heard the fell short of their promise.

You are right. Only one agenda.

I mostly stay around Moultonborough when I boat and some of the areas are tight, like between the markers. I will slow down considerably, but it's so unrealistic to come down to headway speed every 10 seconds on a busy day. I think it passing can be done safely at 75 or 100' but we have to leave that buffer for boneheads.

I'll be up with my boat next month. I have a NC boating certificate from BoatEd. I faxed a copy of it to the marine education/enforcement office and the guy called back and said it was acceptable for an out of towner..

Homewood
 

Welcome to the lake!

I am familiar with Lake Norman in NC. The lake gets pretty crazy on weekends. I witness the Memorial Day spectacular near the Interstate bridge. I'm surprised motorists on the bridge don't fall off! :eek:

I rented a Formula at the Formula dealer for a weekend. The dealer never mentioned a boater's safety course was mandatory. He only ask for a valid driver's license and a credit card.

I'm pretty impressed you can rent a Formula :)

Formula rental.
 

Got to talking about how much I love my Formula and that I am trying to convince my sister who lives in Mooresville to buy one. More of a sales tool to them. :D

The political fall out on Winnipesaukee is a hot topic at the Lake Norman bars, BTW.

As for boating safety. Try navigating the Merrimack River above and below the Hooksett Dam. It gets pretty crazy on weekends. No one is adhering to the 150' rule. If everyone did, the river would be pretty much a no wake zone. Only once in the last few years I have seen MP presence. He was under the I-93 bridge next to Home Depot. He was having a great day handing out tickets. There should be an MP boat above and below the dam every weekend. Unfortunately, MP no longer have the manpower. :(

Oh great. That gives me solace knowing this hot topic is being discussed in such high intellectual venues as Lake Norman bars...NOT! I can just imagine them discussing their proposed Republican sweep in the fall elections somehow overturning recent Lake Winni legislation (but ignoring the fact that said legislation enjoyed bipartisan support in both houses).
And speaking of legislation, for those who may have missed it, I strongly urge you to read a letter to the editor in Tuesday's Laconia Daily Sun http://www.laconiadailysun.com for a well written and to the point interpretation of the issues at hand.

Wow.....bipartisan support......in an election year......THERE'S a big surprise!! :rolleye1:

Speaking of ignoring facts, reading Mr. Ed's letter, he seems to have ignored the fact that Erica Blizzard's crash did NOT involve high speed. I wonder why he keeps forgetting that little tidbit?? Just wondering......:rolleye1: :rolleye1:

Conflation isn't correlation
 

I can only guess how Mr Chase relates high speed boating and/or the speed limit to Ms Blizzard's crash. Had she been the head of the Anti Temperance League I might see the point.

Sorry, I fail to find anything well written about it. It's also a poor interpretation of the issues at hand.

So, we'll go back on topic talking about addressing real problems affecting boating safety on the lake, while you can continue spending time writing mediocre articles about all the typical lies and spin.

Better yet, instead of writing articles, why don't you ask warren to take $100 and donate it to the MP - who needs the money - in the name of safety???

Interpretations of her speed that fateful night varied as widely as the interpretations of of her blood alcohol level (remember the "expert witness' " wild theory of alcohol concentration related to blood loss!). She's unsafe at any speed. Suffice it to say her interpretation of appropriate laws for the lake was not much more sound than her judgement that night. Geez, and that report at sentencing that she had a previous shoplifting conviction...what goes on in that head of hers? Events that father's day morning make it clear she of all people was not qualified to have the governor's "ear" on that or any other matter.

I also do not find anything that would suggest that letter was well written.

I cast my vote for "well written".