Virus Expert Just Said These States in Trouble
 

Too many threads about the virus! One thread is enough. If people have an interest they can see it there.

I've Never Used A Phone App
 

Hi TiltonBB,

I use a computer, so I can't quite understand what your talking about. I do know that by using a phone app that you can miss things on a webpage, however if only intersted in a thread, click on a thread you are interested in.

I'm not out here to create any problems, I leave that up to others.

Stay well,
Terry

We’re only allowed one thread on COVID in the section on COVID?

Didn't read the article, but the experts told us "15 days to slow the spread" and they have been wrong ever since....

When I go on this site I click on "new posts" to see what has been posted (about the Winnipesaukee area) recently. For the last year or so there have been several threads discussing, informing, ranting, about the same thing: Covid.

The opinions seem to range from "I am terrified, I will get vaccinated twice, get a booster shot, put on two masks, and hide under my bed, to I don't care about Covid, I am living my life like normal.

Sure, it is easy to skip all of them if someone is not interested but it would be easier if everything about the same subject were posted in the same thread.

It would probably be easier for those who love to read about Covid if all of the many posts were in one place too.

That is just my opinion, I am sure there are others.

They are all in the same Covid forum. Since you can see the title, just bypass them.

Tilton BB, I have to disagree. This pandemic is one the most important events of our lifetimes. It is many faceted. I believe the Covid forum has received more posts than any other forum at this website over the last two years. That shows that people are very interested in this topic and they need an outlet for discussing it. Asking people to post everything of interest, all news, etc. in one thread is impractical. It would result in an unfocused jumble. Are you actually just trying to say that Trfour is overposting? That's a matter of perception and opinion and up to the moderator to decide.

Or maybe you're saying you're sick of the whole topic of the pandemic. Well, New Hampshire is at an all-time high for infections. It's hard not to care when you think about the consequences of that.

I agree it's important, but multiple/daily new threads with singular links, most without commentary, is excessive—especially when the discussion that follows is neither productive nor positive nor Winni related.

I think it's time to have focused threads and get back to what the forum is supposed to be.

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Thinkxingu, with infections at a record high, we're still where we were two years ago: local people need up-to-date information and a place to discuss this incredible event. Many people don't feel comfortable at this point going to public places where they can have in-person discussions, so forums play an important role in connecting people. The issue you raise is, what are valid topics for a "Winnipesaukee" forum. Unless otherwise defined by the moderator, I would say whatever is on the minds of people in this area. The home page and FAQs don't say that all or most posts should be about the Winnepesaukee area.

Still, you make valid points, especially about links posted with no discussion. If would be nice if people would summarize the main point of a linked article. But the counterpoint is that we can just skip those if we wish. It's also possible to block all of a member's posts if you don't like them.

We all want all of this misery---the pandemic, the economy, politics, etc.---to be over. Communication and an exchange of information and ideas can contribute to that. People are people and we can't really control how often they post or what they post about, except for the forum owner/moderator.

Yes, Covid is still a thing, but if we're going to continue to beat dead horses, we should keep the beating to as few threads as possible. Clearly, others feel the same, and we've lost some members over this, so maybe it's time to simplify.

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If you think about it, it really isn't a dead horse.
Our society has the technology to change to a format that has less human interaction and travel... but just never seems to really go there.

I compare it to all the decades that I have heard we are going to become a paperless society... yet I am still surrounded by paper.

We just don't change. Many expected that this would simply be over with, they wouldn't need to do anything, and life would go back to what it was.

With any luck, more will come to realize... that is never going to happen.

A new variant, Omicron, worse than Delta, was announced today. So no, Covid isn't a dead horse. People in New Hampshire are ACTING LIKE we're not in a state of emergency, including the governor, who is contemplating calling out the National Guard to work in overwhelmed hospitals but is not thinking of going back to mandates for masks, vaccines, or social distancing or a lockdown. In other words, the governor sees the emergency and is trying to stop it on the outcome end (hospitals, where people are sick and dying) rather than the cause end (unvaccinated people spreading the virus). He's acting like we no longer have the emergency we had when he issued emergency orders in 2020, when in fact the emergency is far greater today than it was at that time.

There is no relationship between being tired of hearing about Covid and the actual size of the threat. As long as the threat continues unabated, as long is it's actually increasing, people will want to discuss it.

We've all been hoping silently that there would be no variants. I've always thought that seemed unlikely. Then we hope silently that our current vaccinations will be effective against the new variant. Then the question becomes, what happens to our immune system and the virus when we load up on vaccines every 6 months? All pressing issues, not dead horses, sadly.

Not really... we get a flu vaccine every year just before medical science suggests that we will have a wave of infection.

Flu actually changed our society, but since we have been with it from birth... we just don't notice the change.

There’s no emergency. It’s an infection. People who get it get sick then most people get better. Misery is an outlook. Live life and don’t engage in fear pornography.


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Information from a local media outlet that’s not MUR
https://granitegrok.com/mg_windham/2...njured-or-dies


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This is awesome: all the links in that article are either to Gateway Pundit, a super biased site, or, get this, Granite Grok itself.

Like, Granite Grok cites itself as a source. The last time I saw something as bad was when Red State wrote an article that quoted Twitchy (owned by same company) that had quoted, you guessed it, Red State.

So objective!

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Closed minds have a tendency to stay that way


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The facts speak for themselves!
 

Florida is reporting the lowest amount of coronavirus cases per capita in the nation after Gov. Ron DeSantis was widely criticized by media outlets for his handling of the virus.

The Sunshine State reported a daily average of 1,393 coronavirus cases as of Friday, six per 100,000, which was a two percent decrease over the last two weeks.

At the same time Florida reported the lowest amount of new cases in the country per capita, coronavirus cases are surging in many states where strict lockdown orders were issued by Democratic governors.

Michigan, where Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer imposed some of the most controversial restrictions in the nation during the height of the pandemic, leads the nation in daily coronavirus cases per capita.

The hope is that the states like Michigan and Minnesota who are experiencing a surge in cases will "learn from Florida's experience" and promote treatments that work as opposed to lockdowns which "we've seen time and time again" do not.

Florida appears to be ahead of everyone. Do wish more individuals would do some research for themselves


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Beware of fake news
 

Watch out for news from GraniteGrok and especially the Gateway Pundit that Grok points to. Both are part of the fake news propaganda machine that grab nuggets of truth, then use common logical fallacies to weave a curtain of falsehoods. Using their logic, one could claim that drinking coffee or living in the lakes region causes all the ailments and deaths experienced there. Degree of causality is not part of the databases referenced, yet a high degree of causality is assumed by the articles. Check out Reuters's take on it to get a mainstream opinion.

Watch out? Not sure what you mean. Listen to others and read what others have written and determining for yourself should always be the correct way. Can we get back to Florida’s success recovery from the virus


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The fact that you posted that without actually looking up to see it was (at least partially, I've not finished with it) objectively false is exactly what you're claiming others do. The false part, by the way, is that the countries cited did not stop the vaccine, they put it on pause for a period for certain ages (and some didn't even do that). It took 30 seconds to discover the first false claim, so I didn't bother with the rest.

I'm equally critical of both sides, but the conservative ones posted here are just so ridiculous sometimes.

As for Florida, natural immunity will begin to bring the rates of death between blue and red states closer, but long-term efficacy of natural immunity is questionable.

Side note: the first, non-vaccine, year, deaths were similar between blue and red states because population levels of blue cities equaled lockdown/mask-resistant red cities. The second, vaccine, year showed a much greater disparity based on political lines.

Ultimately, though, we'll really only know what the "right" decision was years from now.

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They aren't conservative.
You are mistaking Republican for conservative... they are not one and the same.

“Natural immunity is questionable” Millions of years of evolution says differently


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Well, except for all those other diseases and viruses that would maim, paralyze, or kill us without treatment.

You know, like hepatitis, mumps, measles, rubella, tetanus, meningitis, polio...

How's natural immunity doing with those?

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Here’s a related article: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...kless-florida/

Sometimes the facts are just what they are. And sometimes, people still refuse to believe what is true!

Florida is in it outdoor mode, while Michigan is moving to the indoor mode.

That isn't new. They have seen it on every cycle.

What the concern is of each Governor is not the new cases, it is the hospitalization rate and the damage to the economy. They have to work to balance those out.

Same with several of the federal vaccine mandates, socialized medicine through the VA, Medicare, and Medicaid plays a big part in federal costs. For the State of NH it acts as a higher percentage cost than other States, so the Governor takes notice... and even private employers are noticing it in their new health insurance rates.

If we had a million new cases in NH tomorrow, but no one went to the hospital or lost a single day of work... it would not be an issue.

Amid Michigan's fourth coronavirus surge, state health leaders issued a public health advisory on November 26, recommending everyone over the age of 2 wear a mask, regardless of vaccination status, when at indoor gatherings.
Businesses and other establishments were encouraged to put policies in place that require masks for all people who enter their buildings.

In the past week Florida has had 7 new Covid cases per 100,000 residents. Highly masked Michigan has had 85 new cases per 100,000.

Again, the facts speak for themselves.

From the Posting Rules (in the FAQ):

"Your question or comment must be relevant to Lakes Region tourism, activities or topics."

From the Posting Guidelines (in the FAQ):

"Only post messages, pictures and comments that are directly related to Lakes Region topics and activities."

From the Overview (in the FAQ):

"We insist that posts are relevant to the Lakes Region of New Hampshire."

Latest statistics show 86% of NH has at least one dose and 64% are fully vaccinated.
Seems to me that if the vaccine was working that new cases would be declining and not rising.

Ummm...two things: 1. that leaves over 1/3 of the NH population unvaccinated and 2. we've known that breakthrough infections can occur but that major symptoms and death are largely avoided. That still holds true—a quick search of the lit shows that the great majority of people being hurt by Covid are unvaccinated.

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Just because something is logical, doesn’t mean it’s true.

IMO, part of the answer is there is significant evidence that the vaccinated can pass on the virus even if they are asymptomatic. This, again IMO, is the reason that the value of the vaccine is to prevent death and hospitalization. And it most certainly does. But the vaccine has less effect on transmission.

This is not a reason to be unvaccinated. The risk of death and hospitalization is much greater in the unvaccinated.

And the other reality is we still don’t know everything about the virus. And the statistics are also dependent on the various rates and kind of testing and reporting available. Reality is rarely simple.

A study conducted in the UK shows the opposite:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...vid-deaths-uk/

For those quick to “debunk” any information found in a conservative outlet, a link to the actual study can be found in the article.

Actually, if you read the study that gateway pundit misinterprets and misrepresents, it says nothing of the sort that you are suggesting. The conclusion of the report is that vaccines are safe and effective.

I’ve avoided discussion some of these issues on the forum, but “in for a penny…..”

The statement has been made on these forums that:

Everyone should do his own research and draw conclusions as to what is best for him. ( substitute gender neutral,if you wish).

Absolutely nothing wrong with this position, BUT…

I don’t know squat about winterizing cars, the best kind of dock, the best roof material, Ford or Chevy and the forum has been unbelievably helpful in these relevant Lake discussions. But even after reading the helpful responses, I still am not really able to “do the research and draw conclusions” simply because I don’t have the background to understand some of the discussion and I don’t really know the accuracy of the informants, MOST of whom do seem to be knowlegible.”

On the other hand, I do have the background to understand the issues concerning Covid and I can read the original literature and make decisions based on this. And the other part is there are a lot of things that are not clear and are still unknown. Even experts need to understand enough to make the best decisions. And there should always be open mindedness about points of view.

When we go to the doctor we , hopefully, are given a diagnosis and an honest discussion of what is best for us. And we do ultimately make our decisions based on the doctors advice and either a second opinion or other valid sources of information.

The problem, as I see it with Covid is that the idea that “I’ll do my research and make my own decision and no one can tell me what to do.” has been so politicized as to make it just not reasonable. What kind of medical research has the pro basketball player done to justify not getting vaccinated? Or the master mechanic? Or, on a different subject such as winterizing, does a jerk like me decide who doesn’t even know what a battery tickler is?

End of rant.

Replace the Covid subforum with a Neighbor Helping Neighbor forum
 

Thank you very much for this information. I did search the FAQs and didn't find those specific rules.

Are you saying that COVID-19 is not an appropriate topic for this website? If so, why is there a Covid forum?

Or are you saying that Covid topics are OK but they should pertain specifically to the Lakes Region? In that case, why haven't non-Lakes Region Covid threads been removed?

I see numerous threads that aren't related to the Lakes Region in, for example, home maintenance and automotive. I would hate to see those threads go as I've personally benefitted from members' expertise in those subforums.

I would be in favor of restricting the Covid subforum to Lakes Region topics of a practical nature like "Where can I get a vaccination in Gilford?" My reasons:

(1) It would end the spread of false information, like pandemic denial, that is a threat to public safety.
(2) Seeing the dark underbelly of human nature displayed in the Covid forum is depressing. I assume that the Winnipesaukee forum was originally intended to be uplifting. The Covid subforum is a downer.
(3) The Covid forum has driven a wedge between people.
(4) It projects a negative image of people in this area.

I would not like to see more policing of other subforums for Lakes Region content. If I live in the Lakes Region (I do), own a house here (I do), and have a home maintenance problem that forum members can answer, it's very valuable for me to be able to access their expertise. Members have also expressed that answering such questions is something they like to do. Contrary to the Covid subforum, the home maintenance and automotive forums have brought people together.

Along these same lines, I would really like to see a new subforum called Neighbor Helping Neighbor. Not everyone in the Lakes Region is well to do or has ready access to necessary services. Some are senior citizens, live alone, are in poor health, etc. A Neighbor Helping Neighbor subforum would allow people to ask for what they need and others to offer whatever they have to share (expertise, time, labor, things they no longer need and want to rehome).

Wouldn't that be much better than trading insults in the Covid subforum?

I do not think the webmaster is looking to stop you from posting... such that covid is a local issue.

Unfortunately covid, even in South Africa, has become an issue for the Lakes Region.

Because it was sent from corporate on Wednesday, and my local manager was not in, I didn't see the new situation that every employee in communal areas will need to be masked until future notice... if only for a minute or two. I didn't realize it until I made a transfer to Meredith... their manager had worked over the weekend so they were all made aware.

So Monday, I am masked regardless of vaccine status... and I have seen a lot of customers with masks... so it does have some effect in the area.

Anddd here you go: https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...g-death-more-/

Do you even read the articles you post? As Newbie pointed out above, the (factual) study is grossly misinterpreted by The Daily Expose, a conspiracy-theorist website, is the source of the quote that The Gateway Pundit, also a conspiracy-theorist website, quotes as "evidence."

Here's a nice graphic that might help you.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a80e5547c0.jpg

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As John pointed out that conservative and Republican are not the same thing--we should also note that misinformation and conservative are not the same thing. You don't see people quickly dismissing articles from the Wall Street Journal or Forbes, just for example. But when there are repeated posts from laughable misinformation or disinformation sites, you should expect them to be called for what they are

Websites aren't going to matter.
The economy is front and center... and federal support is largely gone.

Biden authorized a coordinated release of crude from the reserve... but as we see covid is what really brought the crude futures back down to Earth.

I know that the government contract mandate is really going to shake up the situation... but even that will shake out rather quickly in a month or two.

Good point, but an easy mistake to make. We're in a situation where the loudest Republican voices assert they are the most conservative people, while doing very unconservative things.

Deficit spending increases during the Trump administration were at levels that would make conservatives blush, just as one example.

President Trump's friendliness to Russia was also very new for a group that coined the phrase "Evil Empire".

I am not opining on whether these things were good or bad, only noting that they were not conservative.

Conservatives are defined as conserving...
Basically we are taught from birth... Waste not, Want not.
Politicians of either party are a different breed, they flow to whatever they feel will get them the vote.

For us, the vaccines mean less time loss at work (hopefully), less time lying around (I spend more time working to increase the productivity of my property during my down time), and less medical costs (going to the hospital for most means a bill - a very costly bill).

Very admirable and easy to understand. Also harkens back to when people who described themselves as conservative sought to protect the environment. I have never thought of myself as conservative, but I do try to be conservative in the way you define it. Cheers

A fair point.....but if those who are vaccinated can still carry, spread and contact covid 19.......why are we demonizing the unvaccinated. Looks like everyone is in the same boat

Because I was forced to stay home because I carried the virus to, and I quote, ''Protect those that are not vaccinated''. Why should I have to protect them from a choice they made?
I have seen my medical insurance premiums rise dramatically... it isn't because I was sitting in an ER or hospitalized.

Except the chances of hospitalization and death are much greater in the unvaccinated. And aside from the obvious, the unvaccinated are a greater economic burden. Not everyone is in the same boat at all.

I think that is why we are slowly seeing the businesses transfer the medical premiums back onto their workers. It places more responsibility on the individual do what they can to remain symptom free.

The loss time for the various outlets will continue to show up in higher costs registered as inflation.

Interesting thing on the health care side, Medicare Part A is not in the best of shape... so more hospitalizations may have serious implications on retribution rates and what facilities will end their attachment to Medicare.

Medicaid directly impacts the State budget (that includes uncompensated care), so the outcome is a bit more collective on that front.

I don't think anyone has demonized the unvaccinated. That is not the same thing as being disappointed in their actions or even requiring them to be vaxxed to keep their jobs.

The chances of a vaccinated person contracting/spreading are far less than those of an unvaccinated person.

Actually in favor of vaccinations.......just curious about the controversy

I agree, sadly, that the controversy itself is fascinating.

A very thoughtful cousin said to me a few weeks ago that the capacity for sophisticated thought separates humans from other species. But the irony is that our capacity for thought does not give us the capacity to change our behavior on these complex issues. In this case, we have the ability to protect the entire world, but we have not done so.

The same can be said for eliminating poverty, we have not. Eliminating hunger and homelessness, we have not. Eliminating wars, we have not. However, you believe we have the capacity to eliminate this virus.


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We just have to wait! Everyone is on their way here coming across the southern border.

YES! EXACTLY! I did not mean to suggest that this is the only situation, this phenomena is everywhere, including your great examples. I did mean to point out that there is a difference between our thoughts and our "capacity". We do not have the capacity to be governed by our rational thoughts.

To your examples--We have the brains and resources to eliminate poverty, at least in the USA, yet we do not. Wars are not the product of rational humanitarian thinking anywhere--everyone knows that at least one side will suffer terribly, and we keep choosing to enter them. We know that if we vaccinated everybody worldwide, covid would pretty much disappear; yet we do not choose to do this.

This occurs at a personal level stuff too. Just recall all the things you've done that conflicted with your own rational thought.

Dr. Anthony Fauci says we should do 8 things to deal with the Omicron variant.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...edgdhp&pc=U531

Mutations on the spike proteins of the variant caught the attention of researchers who have been on the lookout for changes that could worsen the pandemic.


https://www.nbcnews.com/science/scie...ickly-rcna6979

This statement is patently untrue.... Unfortunately the vaccine does not prevent the spread and thus does not prevent mutation of Covid. The CDC published a report that showed similar viral loads in vaccinated people as they did in unvaccinated people.

In the P-Town Delta outbreak, 74% of the people were vaccinated. Omicron is poised to be even more pervasive. Luckily the vaccines are good at keeping people out of the hospital. Unfortunately, they do not prevent employee downtime...

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/...cid=mm7031e2_w

Woodsy

I doubt they could have made the argument with a straight face that I had to isolate - downtime - to protect those that are not vaccinated if everyone on the planet was vaccinated.

The vaccines reduce infections and thus spread and mutation dramatically. I can't believe I still have to type that or that you think covid would have any significance at all if everyone was vaxxed.

In P-town hundreds of young people descended on crowded bars to get up close and personal with strangers. Moronic and highly unusual--they were basically bathing themselves in other people. I can't believe you hold that up as some sort of typical happening.

I leave your gain of function posts alone because they are so out there that nobody believes them. Please go back to those

I give you the link to the CDC study on Ptown... and yet you dismiss precisely what it says! You claim the vax reduces infection, yet despite MA having a 69% vaccination rate at that time, out of the 469 people who contracted Covid in this incident, 346 (74%) were fully vaxxed! 74%! The CDC study found similar viral loads in vaxxed/unvaxxed people, indicating that despite being vaxxed, you can still transmit Covid! You dismiss the Ptown outbreak as "moronic and unusual"... However, Ptown was studied precisely because it represents a typical large gathering!

The US currently has an average vax rate of 59%... yet we have had more infections this year than last year. With a 59% vax rate one would think it would be much lower.

You cannot have it both ways! If the CDC is to be believed, then the message on the CDC website that states despite being fully vaccinated you can still catch & spread Covid is truthful... and Ptown outbreak backs that message up!

The ONLY thing the vax is good at is keeping a person's symptoms relatively mild (if any symptoms) and out of the hospital... thus conserving an already low resource (medical care) and $$$ that would have to pay for it. Unfortunately, the vax has had little effect on the lost time due to quarantine and the affect that lost time has on the economy. A scary sidebar is an asymptomatic vaxxed person spreading the virus without knowing.

Woodsy

Will everybody please pray for Marcus Lamb, 64 ...... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/marcus-l...isinformation/ ..... "a vaccine skeptic who repeatedly suggested on air that people pray instead of getting vaccinated."

http://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/01/us...lamb-dead.html

In September of 2020, if the announcement were made that the new “warp speed” vaccine produced during the Trump administration would remarkably reduce death and hospitalization due to Covid, there would be rejoicing and a mad rush to get vaccinated.


It is also true, according to the latest studies and the scientific consensus, that even the fully vaccinated can still be infected with the virus and transmit it to others….whether the vaccinated person has no symptoms or mild symptoms.

This is why, according to the LATEST CDC recommendation, that in some circumstances even the vaccinated should mask up in large indoor spaces and in areas with a high transmission rate, such as NH. And in some circumstances, even in large outdoor gatherings.

What is still in some dispute is just how easily the vaccinated can transmit it. The latest study suggests that the vaccinated transmit it as easily as the unvaccinated. That is how science works, you learn as you go.

The truth is there is still a lot we don’t know about Covid, the original alpha variant as well as those to come.

The most important lesson is that we would be in a lot better shape if more people were vaccinated, regardless of how easily the vaccinated can spread the virus.

And, miracle of miracles, with full vaccination Covid might be only as dangerous as the Flu.

It's not that I claim the vax reduces infections, it's that clinical trials prove it.

You seem to be hung up on the idea that if any vaxxed person becomes infected, that disproves the vaccines. This is ridiculous--nobody has said the vaccines are perfect. If, just for example, you read that a vaccine is 90% effective, that means that (all else being equal) a vaccinated person has reduced his chance of infection by only 90% compared to an unvaxxed person with the same lifestyle and level of exposure. It should be obvious that this is extraordinarily good.

But this is all exposure dependent--if a vaxxed person amps up his exposure, he also amps up his chance of getting covid. I don't know if you've ever been to a crowded bar or dance club that caters to singles, or maybe seen one on TV? These extremely tight quarters with hundreds of sweating heavy breathers all trying to maximize their contact with others. This was not tea and crumpets on the beach.

Get vaxxed. Stay out of mosh pits

Has anyone seen data or information on how vaccinated vs. unvaccinated have behaved in terms of risk exposure? Specifically, do vaccinated people take more risks and, as such, have a higher likelihood of being exposed in the first place?

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I sorta,maybe, know what you’re asking. But in evaluating ones risk exposure, regardless of what the vaccinated do, their risk for a particular activity, in terms of death and hospitalization, will be less than the unvaccinated.

The REAL risk takers are the unvaccinated.

But there is a difference between real risk and perceived risk. The person who believes his magic feather will protect him from Covid is not really a “risk taker” by exposing himself to the virus.

Well ...... organized indoor pickleball run by the local town recreation depts is happening. I play about three or four times per week with no one wearing a mask and no vaccination requirement. No one has asked to see my CVS official Triple-Vaxx government vaccination card to get inside the gym, yet. When you play pickleball the dynamics and socialization involved whomps the hell out of any stray virus strands alive inside the large indoor gymnasium and the covid doesnt have no chance to make contact with a pickleball player! ...... ;):banana:

Hey ...... what the hay ..... iff'n I actually get whomped by the covid ...... I'm think'n it will backfire in a good way ...... and whomp the holy hell out of my tinnitus. Covid trumps tinnitus ...... and I come out the big winner! Weeeeooooo ...... :D

I appreciate the nuance, but I was looking more for generalities. For example, I went to a comedy show (Gary Gulman) in Boston last week that required proof of vaccination and mask wearing. In that scenario, "vaccinated" people (I'm assuming some weren't really) were increasing their odds of exposure in a way that unvaccinated were not.

Also, are more of those unmasked people in public spaces vaccinated people who are more confident or is there a relationship between "safety minded" people and masks in general...even after being vaccinated?

So many questions!

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Why do you assume some individuals are lying about their vaccine status? Sitting in a crowded theater enjoying a comedy show this time of year is a risk you are willing to take. Many of us wouldn’t take pandemic or not


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Congregating in bars with strangers, whether in Provincetown or elsewhere, is normal human social behavior, and the opposite of moronic. Normal people have moved well beyond the pathological virus panic and discarded the useless masks and begun to live their lives out from under their beds again. The fad of fixation on the virus has faded, as all fads do. Virtually no one pays attention to those who want to cling to being miserable and trying to make others join them in their misery.


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You win first prize
 

Congratulations! This is the best post of 2021 - period, end of discussion. :cheers: The panic porn crowd will continue to push this ridiculous narrative until they're out of breath. Their house of cards is rapidly collapsing, as is the administration that's pushing this nonsense.

I don't know how widespread it is, but I've been told by people they've been vaccinated only to find out later they weren't, so I'm assuming that applies to some in general.

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Like Aaron Rodgers? Oh wait, he said he was immunized...:liplick::)

But seriously, I know more than one fully vaccinated person who tested positive with no symptoms. Their concern is not for themselves but instead for the unvaccinated and/or high risk people they come into contact with. One is a doctor, the other an educator in an elementary school where children can only now be vaccinated. I applaud their willingness to take precautions to protect others. Until this happened so close to me I was getting tired of the precautions I have been putting up with for so long. Now, as I look at my vaccinated and boosted parents who are very high risk, I am grateful for the steps so many are taking to protect not themselves but others and will continue to choose to do the same.

Good read from the Atlantic. Brewing a second cup of coffee before I read how a few of you tear it apart!
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...s-fine/620824/


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Why would any thoughtful person “tear it up?” This isn’t high school, where you have to root for your “side.”

The article is well written. If you read beyond the title, a lot of the success of the schools is stated to be attributed to the reasonable precautions of masking and other mitigating measures. My stepson teaches at a small university which had very reasonable guidelines that were followed and the school has had very few problems.

And, there still is a lot we don’t understand about the pandemic.

Exactly right. Here's a solid section.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d2126e8d50.jpg

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I haven't seen any data on that. I don't tend to socialize outside of work; but spend a lot of hours there. I think for my breakthrough it was more a matter of the number of people that work closely together and the number that finally came down with it after all those hours together. When some started showing some pretty strong signs of being sick, I have to admit we didn't react as quickly as we should have.

You're right. I was too harsh with moronic.

Let's just say that it is higher risk wrt covid than pretty much anything else, so we should not be surprised that a number of people got sick.

I think a certain section of our society has yet to accept that the recent indiscretions are going the way of the dinosaur.

I agree Flying. If a number of people did indeed get sick, then they got sick. No one died. Life is risky. Thankfully we can try to outweigh the risk with reward. Here’s to people congregating in person and on the forum. [emoji3]


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But we don't get to manage our own risk, it gets done for us in countless ways.

He gave a few great examples of what people can do before Christmastime.

https://www.today.com/health/health/...idays-rcna7627

I meant the collective nature of our society.
A lot of them are screaming about independence and personal freedom, almost sounding like a corporation that wants to privatize the profits and socialize the costs.

When costs in society rise briskly... society strikes back.
At a certain point, our Governor is going to go from being concerned to actually scared. It will not hit the legislators as quickly, they don't have as much information... or even the ability to absorb it intellectually.

Those socialized costs in Medicare, Medicaid (50% owed by the State), Veterans medical care, and every government worker from the federal/State/local level having increased medical insurance premiums.

Those all require tax dollars.

Today's numbers:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/le...edgdhp&pc=U531

Holy ****. 1 out of every 289 residents dead in some states.

Yeah just a F’n flu.

Update
 

Too much we still don’t know.

A few days ago, we had an almost cordial discussion about an Atlantic article, pointing out that school openings seemed to be going well (with mitigation efforts) and no serious Covid problems. Then yesterday or the day before an article on NHPR about what industries are driving the uptick in NH and a graph and the article using NH data attributed the current spike almost exclusively to school spread. Not nursing homes, not jails, not other industries or sites.

Stay tuned.

Yes. The uptick in numbers here in NH are a result of the states successful testing protocols. The positive numbers were always here, just not identified. Now everyone has access to a home test kits delivered for free thought the state. However, did you know many schools and businesses refuse to accept negative results from the free home test kit. Will accept your positive results, but not a negative. Want to give the Governor his dues for getting these tests out, but if schools or work won’t accept it’s results what are we left with. Just more waste


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I believe most schools in MA have "test and stay" models—is that not the same for NH?

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What bugs me is that we all hear from the White House, Fauci, et al that we need to be vaccinated and get the booster. Ok, I get that. NH says get hte booster. But the entire process is left to a few sites with ZERO dates and times available. I have not heard NH is restarting the mass vaccination sites for booster. Remember, it takes as long to get a booster as it does a full shot. So now we are faced with a need to boost, but nothing being done to accelerate the process. Pharmacies are doing maybe 4 shots per hour....in 8 hours that is 32 +/-. Look around...there are not many sites. We will never get there at this rate. Where are the LEADERS???????? All I hear is baloney.

Can’t agree more. Let me add the states booster blitz in NH is scheduled for Dec 11? 10k shots total. Why are we waiting two more weeks if this is such a threat? Also, over the past month Sununu has asked us all to get the important booster now. But, he has not. He told us all this past week he is waiting for the blitz. So deadly so important why is he waiting until then? Just asking a few questions over coffee


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Each school district in NH handles cases differently. One example is Merrimack won’t except the at home results test. Bedford will. Same test.


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Here's the large site program you're looking for, with sites in Laconia, Rochester, et al: https://www.governor.nh.gov/news-and...-booster-sites

Also, make sure to Google your local pharmacy. My booster at CVS took just a few days to schedule and a few minutes to receive. Just that one store was doing 300/day!

Charlie Baker reported last week that the testing Think describes is working extremely well, and has saved 140,000 "sick days" for kids in Mass (maybe that's 20,000 kids tested negative who would have each missed 7 days of school?)

I thought this delay in availability was exaggerated. I just tried all the pharmacy’s in the lakes region and it is WORSE then you stated . First on line appointment was the 18 th ! That’s nuts ! You can get one Tuesday if you drive down to Nashua . Here in Florida I can walk into any Publix and get one right away.
You are getting the short end of this one !

Agree, however here in NH as I noted earlier, many school systems won’t accept your negative home test results. Must be verified from a acceptable lab. Which means another swap and wait time


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Deadly for those that do not have the initial vaccination. For those with the initial vaccination, but not boosted, they are noting an uptick in hospitalization.
Hospitalizations are what get the government to react, as they have direct impact on their budgets.

They hear the private sector screaming about labor shortages... but that has so many factors out of their control that they have to just ignore them.

Last Thursday, my wife and I looked online and called around. While (then) Hannaford Meredith said the earliest appointment would be Dec 18, the Meredith Rite Aid said they were doing walk-ins for an hour that day and 9-5 Friday. We got to the Rite Aid just after 9 on Friday, and already there were quite a number of people ahead of us. But we filled out the forms, provided the prior vax cards, and waited. I had brought a foldup chair for my wife and a book for me, in anticipation. After a while I followed the example of others who had upended those low, wheeled shopping baskets to use as a seat. It took us about two and a half hours, mostly waiting and reading, but we got it done.

At first it did seem that they were progressing slowly through the collection of people we knew were ahead of us, but then things really picked up. Before the time they got to ours, it seemed that they were doing one every five minutes or even faster, and that's about as long as it took for mine - go in, sit down, answer a couple of verifying questions, jab, bandaid, out. Five minutes would be 12/hr, or nearly 100 in an 8-hour day. This had to be tiring for the lady doing the shots, moving people through so quickly and over a long day, and we appreciated her efforts.

Still, to cover 10,000 people getting first, second, or booster shots in a day would take on the order of 100 such sites at one person doing the shot per site (plus support people to collect sheets, organize things, etc.), or 10 large effort sites with 10 jabbers each. Larger efforts likely would take more support people to manage the logistics, plus extra jabbers to give them regular breaks.

So, if you do decide to do a walk-in, and can find a site doing it, go early, bring a chair, and a good book.

The pharmacies down here in Dover are doing a lot more than 4 per hour. They are pumping them out.

I did a walk-in last week at Rite-Aid, they take a limited amount daily between 2-3pm. Walked in at 1:45pm, signed up and was out the door by 2:05pm with my booster. She said take 15-30 walk-ins per day.