A fragile ego.

I'd like to add to that...just because you should, doesn't mean it's smart. I
understand that NH has a very active hunting discipline, and that's fine. All
I'm saying is that I don't see the need to walk around flaunting a weapon.
I've vacationed in NH for 58 yrs. and have never seen anyone carrying. I'm
thinking maybe it's a political statement, which is fine, but the gist of the
issue is why are you walking around armed? Did you 10 yrs ago? 5 yrs ago?
I think it's not so much protection of life and property anymore. I believe it's
become more of a status symbol. As before, respectfully submitted.

Just to be clear, I didn't say you should.

I said just because you can, DOESN'T mean you should.

Sorry Bruno... I misspoke. Ur right...just because u can doesn't mean u should.
What I meant to say is that if u think that u should it doesn't mean that it's the smart thing to do.

The insurance company sparked the discussion about open carry restrictions. They said if we restrict it, they need to see our policy in writing which might affect our liability policy, which sent us to the lawyer to draft it, who advised against it.

Market Basket being private property can make the restrictions. Once posted any customer found carrying would be asked to leave. Failure to leave after being asked to do so is trespass.
But it creates an extra headache for a business that may only occasionally have to deal with it.

Went through that also, scan of the lawyer determined they were an advocate. He was released as he was being paid for his legal advise and not his personal opinion. Current legal advise is either way you could encounter a lawsuit. Current policy is no employee may carry a firearm, in person or in their vehicle, on company property unless specifically authorized or face immediate release from employment.

We haven't had any employees at my location bring up concerns on the issue surrounding customers.

OK so you had a lawyer who advised you (I assume) not to enact a policy as you might face a lawsuit. Why is that not sound advise as you admit that either way you could face a lawsuit based on your "current" understanding? You may not like his personal beliefs but his guidance as your legal council has merit and was not just a personal opinion.

Good guy
 

It seems that on this thread a person with open carry is equated as a good guy. Really? How do you know? Could be a bad guy thinking I'll open carry and they'll think I'm a good guy." Think I'll sling my biathlon rifle on and go shopping.

Why are you assuming the individual is a bad guy or gal? Yes, you can sling your biathlon rifle on and go shopping. Throw on the medals too? Unless it’s just for show


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Interesting observations and opinions all, but somehow they all seem off the mark to me.

As always we are people that are quick to judge and quick to get worked up over any matter and so SLOW to really consider the other (or any other) perspective.

It would appear from several of the posts here that any notion of freedom of choice in America (you do what you want so long as it doesn’t actually impact or hurt me) seems to be rapidly eroding in the Live Free or DIe state, and this thread is a PERFECT example of it.

Of the ~350 million people in America, has anyone ever been harmed by open carry? (Which as correctly stated was your rule as far back as most can remember,,,) I have not seen a single report of open carry actually resulting in an actual safety problem, EVER. Likely more have suffered from loud speakers in boats than from any case of open carry ever reported!

I am also always surprised by highly inflammatory statements such as “this country is psycho when it comes to guns” or “the Second Amendment as being discussed here and most other places is due largely to the 2008 case District of Columbia vs. Heller. Prior to that, the interpretation was not about an individuals right to bear arms the way it gets discussed today”

“Psycho”, now that’s really going to help convince any gun owner that there might be a better option than open carry to protect themself or their family.

And any statement regarding the Second Amendment as not having been crafted as a personal and individual right to keep and bear arms (and any limitation of what kind of firearms this includes) has clearly not been following this matter, or the foundation from where is comes. The very earliest writings on this matter tell a tale of a desire to ensure protection and not even against other individuals or wildlife (that was always assumed as a personal “human” right to defend oneself) the Second Amendment was intended to allow you to defend yourself against an oppressive government. And as such it would also be assumed that citizens would have the same level/type/kind of sidearm that any military would have, otherwise there would be no purpose to it.

So for the moment I must read most of this with the expectation that it is just drama for drama sake, and all I have to do to validate my perspective is look at the OP who provides us with some of the most entertaining posts since the dialog of the original Letterman show. I thoroughly enjoy such posts as entertainment, but I could never take most of the comments as serious or having validity as this mostly reads like reactionary drama.

Well that’s one persons opinion and something I feel certain some here will treat this as just more drama, so simply sit back and enjoy as the show continues as I will be doing ;-)

I mean, every mass shooting has been an open carry situation, right?

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My humor is sophomoric, but my point is quite serious. There are plenty of good reasons for owning and using guns, but only a child would really believe that walking around with a gun in a New Hampshire supermarket somehow makes him or others safer. It's got to be something else

The other legal council advised that litigation could occur either way... and thus did not take a stance on whether to enact a policy or not.
We pay for legal opinions, not personal opinions.

If you are uncomfortable with the people that advise you, you seek other advise.

So you don't believe in private property? Or don't believe that a property owner exerts right over that property?

Not the guy who "smuggle" automatic rifles and fired on the crowd from a hotel room.

Well, actually, no!

No, not at all, those were mass shootings.

They had NOTHING to do with open carry.

And that is exactly my point, do you really believe that any mass shooting was caused because someone was carrying openly, or did you just say that for the sake of adding to the drama of the thread,,,

As pure entertainment its a great soundbite, but if you actually believe that Sandy Hook or Las Vegas or any other mass shooting happened because an otherwise reasonable person was carrying openly, and then out of the blue a mass shooting just happened as a result of that person having their gun not concealed vs it being hidden under a jacket, then we can never actually resolve this debate.

Matters not to me as I would never announce I had a firearm on my person by displaying it in public. Thats just my philosophy, but the hard truth of the matter is open carry in 2021 is an extreme rarity and does not happen enough anywhere in America to warrant any discussion about it.

I 100% assure you you are far greater risk every day of being killed by a distracted driver using a cell phone or texting on it, or at greater risk of killing yourself while distracted by simply having a cell phone, than any risk from someone openly carrying a hand gun. So when we fully address that problem, I might take the concern about open carry a bit more seriously. Maybe,,,

Until then, this discussion is all just drama for dramas sake.

:)No idea where you get that idea from.

Clearly you have me confused with some other poster.

I believe America is a better place because we have a 1st and 2nd amendment and I fully believe in people having god given rights to defend themselves and their families and their property.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your comments???

XCR, I appreciate your posts, agree with much of them, you have a thoughtful approach that it great because it makes me think things through.

One disagreement I have is calling a healthy discussion "just drama for drama's sake". I think this, at least so far, is a pretty good discussion, good points on all sides. Ok, I think comparing a military base to a Market Basket is not a great analogy but then again it started the discussion. It's nice to be on a forum where the discussion is about constitution and amendments and private property and not a bunch of name calling.

The restriction on carry would be the invoking of a property right.
There is no ''freedom of choice'' when your ''choice'' is an attempt to override someone else's right.

Other than an owner's personally feeling on the issue, for business, that is mostly the relay of several inputs to revenue and expenses.

For instance, I gave motorcycling, snowmobiling, my PWC, my ATV (even my officer position in the state association), plus many other things... because I wanted to be the choice of old money customers that do not find those things acceptable.

If I learned to sail or ski, or improved my golf game, I could even gain credibility. Luckily, I can handle more of the systems than the other salespeople, and have more of an architectural background... so I get asked for.

So I have had to deal with my ''choices'' both being acceptable to other people and their property rights, along with business interests that are a lot broader than many may understand.

I think most discussions here are very reasonable and many very helpful, and I very much appreciate the viewpoints shared here. Well most of the time, but this one started off on a bit of an odd note and it is one of the most polarizing matters Americans are facing. So I intentionally kept away until I saw how all over the place this conversation went. In my opinion calling America (and assuming that means us) psychos for our desire to own (and possibly bear firearms) is drama. In my opinion calling mass shootings a result of open carry is drama. And so on,,,

Too much said about firearms issues is emotional not fact based, and thats what makes it drama for dramas sake.

If the conversation addressed concerns of mishandling open carry weapons, or holsters that did not secure the guns, or any number of legitimate concerns then it would be quite different and I would likely have considered it an in interesting and legitimate discussion. But it is clear that some feel that that simply showing a gun in public constituted a danger to others, and for me thats just drama.

I could speculate and raise the drama level, by saying maybe these folks were off duty law enforcement of some other profession that allows constant carry. I could speculate that these folks had suffered violent crime and simply wanted to send a message that they would not be victims again. I could do a lot of things to ramp up the drama, but I feel like this is a very important matter and one that should be taken more seriously than calling us psychos or blaming open carry for mass shootings.

The fact is it went as these kinds of polarizing issues usually go, too many go to there opposite corner and little meaningful discussion or debate actually happens. Sure there were some productive comments, but mostly drama from catbird seat.

Well thats what I saw, if you disagree, I cant fault you, its just a different observation and I respect your right to see it as you do. No heart burn here.

If you can do anything to elevate the conversation I will applaud you, and maybe you already have in your attempt to reach out to me. So for that I tip my hat to you. If you bump into me on the lake, tell me I promised to buy you a round and we can debate my "need" to buy some expensive and shiny props for the boat, or maybe my desire buy,,, well any of the crazy things on my list ;-) Thanks

I'm not following, but thats ok, I may be more block-headed than most ;-)

If I can attempt to trace that back to the original post are you attempting to draw some line from my comments to some right of Market Basket to allow or prohibit open carry??? As I made no comment about that it doesn't click with me, but then as I said I'm not following so maybe I'm way off track,,,

Incidentally, I've been in the process of picking up a rifle and handgun to start familiarizing L'il Buddy and Bug Bug with firearms and firearms safety, and I ended up grabbing both today. As a former MA resident, I was weirded out by how...simple...it was to buy and transport both. I hadn't known how open NH laws were to MA.

As I said above, I think we're lucky in the northeast because we have among the best standards of living, which means low crime, gun-based or otherwise.

I still won't be open-carrying my new Dirty Harry Special (jk)!

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This is interesting--why do you think it is important to familiarize your kids with guns?

Just to be clear--I enjoyed rifles as a kid. But unless I were a hunter, it would never occur to me to think of guns as a life skill the way you seem to describe it.

''It would appear from several of the posts here that any notion of freedom of choice in America (you do what you want so long as it doesn’t actually impact or hurt me) seems to be rapidly eroding in the Live Free or DIe state, and this thread is a PERFECT example of it. ''

You suggest that Freedom of Choice override others' rights... it never does.
It does not matter if something doesn't ''hurt me''. Property owners act in their own self-interest.

That self-interest has much more effect on our policies than government mandates.

So should a restriction occur, it would be due to public (i.e. customer reaction ) to what is happening.

People tend to push an advocacy position to the point that the negative occurs.

I am sure that in the past people have cooked on Weirs Beach and listened to music... but they went so far as to agitate the backlash.

I'm not a gun person myself, could care less about guns. But I have a dozen or so friends that are gun fanatics and at least 2 or 3 of them shouldn't be carrying. They are loose cannons and when I'm with them I try to keep my guard up.
One took his own life, about 2 months ago, not with his gun but he's dead non the less. So I really question the stability of all many of these legal gun owners.
IMO, anyone with a gun can be provoked to use it under duress, whether it's warranted or not.

Ok, maybe we are getting somewhere now, RE; "you suggest that Freedom of Choice override others' rights"

Not sure how "you" came to that conclusion, but lets be 100% clear, thats your interpretations.

If I have a right of freedom of choice that allows me to carry a handgun openly in public, I see no reason that a public space is considered your property. So long as you do not do something discriminatory or sufficiently dangerous as to put me at actual risk, you can make up any stupid rule about access to your property you want. You are the one who will suffer your potentially bad decision.

So if you own the local grocery store and wish to prohibit open fire arms carry inside and your customers decide your policy is not agreeable to them, they can chose to not buy from you and to discourage everyone they know to not buy from you. That is freedom of choice that is exercised by both parties. Likely both will suffer. You will lose sales, and they will have to find another store to shop at.

Does that make any sense/work for you?

Am I still not on the right wavelength to get your message???

I feel like we are talking cross-purposes and manufacturing even more drama and accomplishing nothing.

Sorry if I just cant seem to make the connection to what your point is about how freedom of choice negatively impacts property owners, I feel like its just the opposite. Sorry I just dont see a conflict in freedom of choice and property ownership. Property owner are not prohibited from making their own choices.

Sorry no hard feelings, and not knocking you, just not syncing up.

HuH?
 

Sorry, I don't understand where you're headed with this.

The short: as a teacher, I believe that knowledge is power.

The long: 1. There is strength in knowledge. For years, we avoided discussing sex, drugs, suicide, etc. because we felt being exposed to those things would increase the likelihood of their occurrence. We know now that education—on all things, even the taboo—reduces that likelihood greatly while increasing one's comfort, confidence, and ability to move through the world with composure.

2. In my world, the more exposed one is to various activities/behaviors/lifestyles, the more likely one is able to empathize and form legitimate beliefs/opinions/worldviews.

I think both of these are required to be good Americans.

Finally, shooting is fun, and I just love doing new things—researching and learning all the new jargon, being part of new groups of people, etc. This next half year will be pew pew time, and then we'll see what's next!
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RE "shooting is fun" I so love to hear people say that. Thank You!

Too often discussions about guns seems to lead to a never ending debate about whats legal or not, what the 2nd amendment means, what guns we should be allowed to buy, ETC, Etc, etc,,,

Often we dance around why anyone would want them (guns). "Because its my right", "I need to defend,,, something", "no one is telling me what to do", YADA, Yada, yada,,

Most rarely someone will actually say its fun. An unsolicited honest and genuine answer; its fun. What better response could there be than Its FUN!

No one proposes licensing owners of steak knives or creating smart bats that prevent them them from falling into the wrong hands and being used to bludgeon someone to death, but the argument that shooting is fun is all the reason I should need to buy and own a gun ("because I like shooting") seems unthinkable and unacceptable to far too many. Even though more people are killed by knives every year than ever killed by "black rifles" since its inception (excepting for war and law enforcement) but we still question and challenge people about why you would ever want one. And here we have the perfect answer, because its fun.

What a wonderful notion, shooting is fun therefore I should be able to do it.

And my recreational shooting puts no one at risk. Wow, its like a gift.

And now this is clearly drama for dramas sake.

Just owning it ;-)

So, I was at the Market Basket last night about 7:30 and got a sub-of-the-week, roast beef, made up by one pf the sandwich makers. Meanwhile the sandwich maker, he's busy making up about five different subs and setting them aside for a customer to come get them.

While I'm telling the sandwich maker what veggies I want, up walks a young guy, about 30, for the waiting order and he's wearing a large black semi-auto hand gun and this definitely gets some attention by other shoppers as he walks past them toward the sandwich counter.

So why does he wear a gun into this Market Basket? Probably because he can, he likes to show it off while walking through this busy supermarket, and they make very good sub-sandwiches for $5.29. Sub-of-the-week is 4.99. He got quick service by the sandwich maker who immediately gave him the waiting subs ...... yes sir. My sense was he just likes to parade around the busy store, wearing a big black gun in a black holster, with light beige pants and white shirt, is something fun to do, to show it off?

As he was walking away with his sub order, I felt like saying out loud; 'HEY BUDDY, HOW COME YOU WEAR A GUN INTO THIS STORE LIKE THAT?' and, you know, challenge him a little on this...... but I decided not and kept my mouth shut as he walked away ..... my smart discretion.

fll - did it ever occur to you that this individual might be a law enforcement officer, like an FBI or ATF agent or state trooper? You seem to go right to the "must be a gun nut" attitude without knowing the facts. Maybe he is just a "gun nut" exercising his constitutional right to open carry in NH.

OUTSTANDING!

So from my average human read of your post I learned the following:

1. First and foremost your concern about open carry has not inhibited you from continuing to shop at the offending location in any way. Almost like bad TV, you seem to be drawn back to the show.

2. Your concern for this matter (or interesting in telling us about it) remains high.

3. You were able to control your impulses to make a public scene that would bring even more attention to these individuals than they bring to themselves. But then you probably realized that "they" might actually like that,,,

4. And finally and possibly most importantly, NOTHING happened because of the open carry you observed. No one was harmed. No public riot occurred. No children were trampled because you didn't cause a commotion. We learned that open carry worked and worked well without any incident of any kind.

While I personally have zero desire to carry openly while shopping at the grocery in NH, I can now feel 100% comfortable because of your dutiful reporting on the matter this its possible, its safe, and it works.

This is what truly makes America great. They can carry openly, you can complain about it, we all can enjoy the education AND entertainment we got from the thread.

All is well. Does it really get better than this. How could it, it seem pretty much perfect, everyone got what they wanted.

And best yet, the sun came up this morning and we are all alive to enjoy it, even though we cant actually see it. So if there is an analogy to be had here, maybe concealed carry is like a cloudy day where you dont see the sun, and open carry is like a clear day where you do see it. And most or the time, not always, but most of the time, we tend to like sunny days better. That said I personally enjoy a cloud or two on a hot day and so for me a big Tee shirt or jacket covering a concealed carry remains a pretty good option (but based on this thread, no necessary).

Entertaining as always, please keep em coming. Happy HUMP day.

Sept 6, 2019: Walmart, Kroger and CVS ban open-carry firearms in their stores.

https://time.com/5670809/walmart-kro...carry-gun-ban/ ...... U.S. stores are asking customers to stop openly carrying weapons.

You know .... there's no open carry allowed at the nearby Walmart and the Market Basket does a totally better job for making fresh sub sandwiches!

Clearly they have failed to read your thread on the matter or they would have learned just how effective open carry really is.

I hope others will learn from your experience.

And just like you are 100% correct that open carry is harmless (based on your statements of your experience) I also fully agree that Market Basket makes much better fresh sub sandwiches than Walmart (aka Subway inside Walmart) but that is mostly based on my regular purchases of meatball subs from both, though from visual observation I believe the MB cold cut subs may be even more superior to Walmart than the meatball subs are. Good call on the subs! Thats said, automotive supplies are best bought at Walmart to ensure freshness as MB seems to have low turnover of motor oil and such.

Keep up the good work!

Six, two and even, over and out, or who was that masked man,,,

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic...s/966984_1.jpg

You know, I'm calling BS on this thread. I've been in that MB dozens of times and have never seen anyone open carry.

FLL Posts
 

Although I find most of FLL's post to be a waste of time to read, I thought this time he made a valid observation.
I am not going to say anything that has not been said already but here are my 2 cents.
I own guns and have a concealed carry permit. I have taken a gun safety course. I have carried maybe twice. Personally I think a gun gives one false courage and is more likely to get you into trouble than keep you out of it. If I were to carry I would take all the gun courses I could find to teach me how to respond and shoot in an emergency. Without that training I am more likely to get myself and bystanders killed. Cops have that training and still get themselves into trouble.

Open carry? What is the point? The only point I can think of is intimidation of the innocent. If I am a bad guy who wants to do you harm your open display of a weapon is not in any way going to deter me...rather I would thank you for the heads up.

If I owned a store such as MB I would not allow guns to be openly displayed. If someone sued me fine...guess we would let the Courts decide.

Most off duty cops I know always carry concealed.

Yes and if they are in plainclothes carrying open, often their badge is displayed on their belt.