Different types of motor oil ?
 

Can someone please explain to me what the difference is between regular motor oil and 'high-mileage' motor oil ? I suspect it is hype and or just marketing?

Also, the differences and advantages between synthetic-blend and full synthetic ?
My car just turned 92k miles, and wondering if I should use the 'high-mileage' variety ?

I've always used a standard high quality oil like 'Quaker State', Pennszoil, Valvoline, in the standard 5Wx30 viscosity. I've checked some websites and for my 2011 Subaru Outback, they are suggesting a 'full synthetic' oil.

The Valvoline website in particular states
"Higher-mileage oils are formulated with conditioners that flow into the pores of the engine seals to restore their shape and increase their flexibility. Most rubber seals are designed to swell just enough to stop leaks, and oil refiners pick their "reswelling" ingredients carefully.".

I do know, once you change from a standard motor oil to a synthetic (or blend), you can
never go back, and the viscosity must be the same, and recommended change intervals are the same.

I plan on keeping my car forever, or until it wears out, so would appreciate folks feedback, especially from you motor-heads and engineers.

Thanks !

I think we need a petrolium engineer to chime in. As a mechanic for over 50 years, I've seen no difference but I have used Mobil 1 for the past 40 years. I do use the high mileage Mobil 1 but I don't really see a difference in performance.Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

The best advise is to always use what the vehicle manufacturer states in the owners manual.

Mobil 1 meets or acceeds all manufactures recomendations. Some maunufacturers of high performance vehicles recomend Mobil 1.Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Yes Mobil 1 does. My point was you can never go wrong with using what the owners manual states.

All the big name motor oils work quite well. The real advantage of Mobil 1 and other synthetics is that in at least some cars they will last extraordinarily long, like up to 15,000 miles, still providing better lubrication than standard. Basically, you can skip the changes between your annual service checkup. :)

So glad you posted this...
 

I have thought about the exact same things.
16 months go I bought a new-to- me vehicle- Oil change sticker indicated another oil change in 8,000 miles. I took this to mean synthetic oil, as I would normally change oil in 3,000-4,000 miles.

Even though I hadn't gotten to 8,000, I had the oil changed after six months of ownership.
So- even though I had a trusted shop do the oil, I never got a straight answer just as to what oil was now in- regular v. synthetic? However, the new sticker said to change between 3-5,000. I took this to mean "regular oil".

So- can you "switch" between oils (assuming the filter gets changed out, also)?

I'm not really asking a question here.
I'm just saying that, for all the good intentions expressed in this thread, the OP's question has not been answered- which leaves me still in the dark about answers to this elusive subject!

Thank you!

I thought I answered it? The value of Mobil 1 is stretching the time between oil changes, in some cases dramatically. A BMW, just for example, can go something like 15,000 miles and 12 months between changes, making synthetic oil a terrific bargain.

Unfortunately, this is difficult for most people of a certain age to believe. So they change it early because they are nervous.

Of course, with something as important as motor oil, people should check their owner's manual--I would not trust the local mechanic or a random internet penpal on this.

So true about those of us at a certain age. I change mine at 5k intervals. Have done so since the. 70’s


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I always recomended to my customers to change their oil evry 5000 miles, even Mobil 1. I'm sure it will go much longer but it still gets dirty, esp if your car is not running properly. I've always changed the Mobil 1 oil on my cars and trucks every 5000 miles. Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Have had cars with both. Running standard oil today in the Toyota. I just found the 5k intervals simple to remember


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Total waste of money and resources.

Get your oil professionally tested to see how long you can safely go. They will test everything. How well the additives (which are critical) are holding up. How much gasoline is in the oil, the viscosity etc.

Not blindly guessing that 5000 miles is the magic distance for every vehicle and customer.

Newer cars don't run nearly as dirty as they used to. Better oils can "suspend" contaminates better. Better oil filters filter more junk out.

If you are gonna change it at 5000 miles, don't waste your money on synthetic.
Non synthetic oils have improved too.

Time is important too. If you don't drive a lot you might be building up to much water (from condensation) in the oil and not burning it off.

Here is where I've had my oil tested numerous times. I'll do like the first 5 oil changes. Then every 100K after that.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com

If you want to learn about oils this is the play to go.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/

Follow the manual
 

I always have good luck following the owner manual, regardless of what the dealer and or mechanics say. I normally keep my vehicles for a good 10 years regardless of mileage. Never had I have major engine trouble.
2010 MB requires synthetic lube, 1 year or 13,000-mile interval.
The previous 2000 Jeep requires 1 year or 8,000-mile interval with semi-synthetic lube.
Before the Jeep, 1997 Dodge requires 3,000 or 1 year whichever comes first.

I do know that oil manufacturers suggest you change the oil annually. The chemicals used in the oil dissipates after opening.

As for the brand, I always use Wolf's Head. The generic brand from the company that produces the oil for all major brands. Yes, I change my own oil.

Don't get me wrong...
 

The responses have been very helpful- I'm thinking of the parts where it is asked if you can change back-and-forth on "standard" oils v. "synthetic".
I believe the OP stated that he "knew" you can't go back once you switch- is that really true? If so, I may already have made a major mistake.

Does changing more often than generally recommended make any difference?- whether standard or synthetic.

Not being mechanical, or car-centric- there are many pitfalls to dealing with the realms of unknown- like oils, viscositiy, standard, standard-blend and synthetic that make me blink!
This is why I thanked the OP for starting this thread- even though I don't perform the service for my vehicles, I still would like to know as much as I can about what I'm paying for.

"Specifically designed high performance formulation with a uniique combination of premium base oils and enhanced additive system to provide increased protection for higher mileage engines." is what it says in the Walmart website on the high mileage SuperTech 5w-20 which now costs $2.88/qt, the same price as the standard version.

That line was probably written by someone who never did an oil change, not even once, in their entire life! ... :laugh:

For me with my 215,000-miles 2013 Scion xB 5-speed manual with its IRWIN TOYOTA SCION DEFECTIVE ENGINE, it needs about 3/4-qt of oil to be added with every fill-up of 11-gallons gasoline. It makes absolutely no difference to this TOYOTA SCION DEFECTIVE 4-cylinder engine whether it consumes the standard or the high mileage SuperTech Oil in the very familiar dark blue bottle...... www.anewwayforward.org/supertech-oil-review/ ..... same price at $2.88/qt.

Over the 215,000 miles, I have bought a hell of a lot of Walmart oil, and the cruise control just stopped working and there's a dash warning that says "Trac Off" and I plan to take it to Auto Haus - Meredith before I go back to that Irwin Zone to get screwed again.

Let me tell you ..... I have a lot of experience in all types of weather and time of day ..... with adding oil to this here engine. ... :eek:

So, where does the oil go ...... it goes wherever it goes ..... don't know? There ain't no oil drips under this car, never. The oil is poured into the engine oil intake plug, and the level of engine oil is shown on the oil dipstick ..... is how this works ..... and after every 11-gal gasoline fill-up, it always needs about a 3/4 qt to bring it up to full, on the dipstick.

Supposedly, Toyota Scions were made with left-over car parts from the 1980's and I believe it. The ignition key is the same key common to a 1982 Celica. At 215k-miles with un-repaired hit & run collision damage, it has something like a $300 trade-in value, so this car is going to go until it don't go no more, and needs a flat bed truck to remove it.

I'd really like to trade it in for a brand new, 1982 Volvo 242glt with a 5-speed manual ...... ha-ha-ha!

I'll bet you've never built or tore apart an engine. Engines today will run a long time on dirty oil but the next owner will pay for the frugalness of the previous owner. But I will admit, most don't care about the next owner.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Built in reminder
 

Not sure about your Toyota, but our two have an automatic 5000 mile reminder. Flashes at 4500 miles and turns steady at 5000.

Dave

I bought a new lawn mower last year and it has no oil drain plug, says oil never needs changing, just add. My last lawn mower lasted 15 years because I changed the oil every year. It was still running when I junked it but it smoked. My guess is they don't want these mowers to last that long anymore so they can keep selling them.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Can’t you just pour the oil out where you add the oil? That’s what I do and it works fine.

Yeah, I’d do anything on a car when I was kid.
But I moved on from 100’s of bolts to millions of transistors.

In the 70’s and 80’s you were lucky to reach a 100K miles.
Assuming it didn’t rot out before then. Changing oil every 3K.
Today it’s pretty routine to reach 200-300K. Without rot. With 10K intervals.
Problem is, other systems in the car need work and are not worth fixing.
Old Electrical, suspension, AWD systems can get expensive on repairs.

All my cars were in top running condition when I sold them.
Some with over 230K.

See...
 

Still trying to clear the air/prove my point-

We already have standard oil, synthetic-blend oil, synthetic oil, and now... in FLL's post (#15), we have SuperTech oil!

Maybe distinguishing between the oils is impossible- due to brand labels, peoples' understandings/preferences, and a general manufacturer non-compliance on types-uses-reliabilites, etc.

I know I'm somewhat chasing a cat up a pole!

It does fascinate me, sometimes, how a subject so elusive can include responses from "those in the know"- including online searches, yet is hard to explain in layman's terms.

Yes you can buy tipping the lawn mower over, out comes the gas and oil. A messy way to do it or suck it out like you would on a boat motor.Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Sorry but in post #12 you said do the first 5 oil changes regular and then every 100K after that?Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Only 15 years? You must not be taking good care of them. ;)
I wish my lawn mowers would die at 15 years.
I can’t kill them. One had a Robins engine with an oil filter made by John deer.
I think it’s at least 20 years old. I firmly agree changing lawn mower oil once a year is good. But I’d abuse it and let it go 2-3 years. Still no smoke.
I finally left it with the house I sold. Magnesium frame was starting to breakdown.
Another Honda I had was 20 years old.
Needed new wheels and bearings and I didn’t feel like doing it a 2nd
time so gave it to a coworker 5 years ago. He did the wheels and still running great. And my lawn took 3 hours to do. So it got a work out. His lawn is as big.
I finally switched to a riding lawnmower. Now I can do lawn in 45 min.
My rototiller I think is 30 years old.

No change oil on lawnmower, Where did you buy it, Walmart?
Curious who makes it.

Ok, I can see where this is going. You're an expert on everything. I've only worked on engines for 50 years. I don't know as much as you because you do your internet research. I'm happy for you.Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

When I pumped gas at the Merit gas stations.

Merit sold filtered used motor oil for $0.20 cents a quart.

I hope you tested it first.[emoji1787]Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Based on my experience, there are zero negligible effects when switching between synth and dino oils. Not sure where that all came from but I've found it to largely be a bunch of malarkey.

In my ice racing days I took an engine that was raised on synth oil and swapped back and forth a few times between synth and dino oil. Nothing blew up or broke as a result.

When I started racing motorcycles, my first race bike had synth in it. Again, I used dino oil and nothing happened.

Couple of turbo cars sprinkled in there over the years, all of them went from synth to dino oil. Nothing happened.


To simplify things, I have been purchasing 5gal buckets of Traveller oil from TSC for over 10 years. That oil has gone into everything I've owned with an engine...the ice racer, the race bikes, my truck, couple of Subarus, the tractor, wood splitter, chipper, push mower, etc.

If I were to follow every mfg's oil suggestion, I'd have 11 kinds of oil to keep track of. Yeah, no.


I too have had a whole lot of oil samples tested by Blackstone Labs over the years. There's a lot to be said about the results of spectral analysis of oil samples.


If I were OP, I'd bump up the oil weight to a 10W in that Subaru and just continue using dino oil.

I know testing oil is a foreign concept for you.

I would do OIL TESTS on the the first 4-5 oil changes.
After confirming the interval had some life left in the oil and nothing was changing test to test.
Then I would stop doing OIL TESTS, it's not cheap and a PITA, but a few tests were worth it to me.
Then I MIGHT do another OIL TEST at 100K and 200K. More curious than anything. At 200K I didn't really care.

If you are really into cars it can spot problems before to much damage is done and a lot of car fanatics will test every oil change.

I just wanted to confirm the oil interval was safe (with plenty of margin for error) I don't do 12K miles. Typically 8-9K. But if it ran to 11K I knew it would be fine.

My latest car I skipped doing oil tests, don't ever check the oil and never change the oil or filter :) Kind of like your lawn mower I guess.

Yes, I've done my research on the internet for a lot of things and I wouldn't try to learn about oil on a Lake Forum. That's why I steered the OP to the right place.

Oh and that high mileage oil can help on some cars with some problems. I'd love to share stories on it but I don't feel like getting bashed on that too.

It's Not Easy Being Green!
 

The last time I tried to recycle my used motor oil at a service station, they wanted $2 per gallon to take it!
:eek2:

I wonder if you could find a small independant shop with a waste oil heater that would happily take it? Our recycling center takes it at no charge.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

S0...
 

Now we have "dino oil"!

Synthetic oil is regular oil that has been "cracked" by chemical processing. You can go back and forth, just remember to use the grade of oil specified in your operator's manual and if you choose a 'store brand,' check that it has the lab certification that it meets the standards.

Cheap off-brand oils may be just as good as store brand or known brands but haven't had their quality independently verified, so it might not be.

That's all I think I know about that.

I had a waste oil heater in my shop. I heated my shop for the past twelve years for free.Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

The waste oil heater is ok. You must have a continuous supply of oil. Uses a lot. Also, very expensive to purchase


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

It burned 2.5 gallons per hour. We would do at least 5 oil changes per day, sometimes as many as 10. In the summer I would store it up in 55 gallon drums. Being in the auto repair business gave us an endless supply. I had a big shop. If I had to buy oil to heat it, it would have cost me at least 5K a year. The waste oil heater cost me 7K and $500 a year to service it, so it saved me an good amount of money over the years. In my 50 years as an auto mechanic I figure I've done at least 50,000 oil changes and never tested one.Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I’ve taken my used oil to Walmart for free for the last 15 years or so.

I think it’s law in MA that those that sell it must accept it.

My town in NH also takes it. They are very good about it and I just swap 5 gallon buckets.

Just trying to understand...
 

So... even though the OP says he "knows" you can't go back-and-forth- you are saying you CAN (between regular and synthetic)?

By grade of oil- you mean, like, 10w-30, 5w-30, 5w-40 and the like?

The rest, about certification, I get.

Thank you.

Is the interval the only thing you would've changed with the testing results? I mean, how many vehicles/machines fail because of oil quality? Other than running dry or overfilling, I'm not sure I've ever even heard of it happening.

I've only been driving and using machines for 27 years, but I'd be surprised if outside of racing/incredibly high tolerance engines, oil doesn't matter much beyond proper amount, viscosity, cleanliness, and interval.

I suppose if one is attempting to see how long an oil would last between changes, testing might be useful, but, for me, there are so many variables I'd have to build in a sizeable margin of error anyway.

For example, I go 10k on full synthetic in my 4Runner, but if I'm towing or doing a lot of backcountry runs in summer, I'll go 5K.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Yup.

To get lab certified, oils must be compatible with others in the same grade.

You're welcome.

Usually the only reason to test oil is for an insurance company or an auto manufacturer to have legal standing for getting out of paying for an engine failure under warrantee. Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Actually there are people who use oil analysis to monitor engines over the course of time, not necessarily for litigation purposes.

Oil testing can be (and is) used to monitor engine health in general so it's not so much a failure would be related to the quality of the oil rather it could be a failure of an engine component that is affecting the quality of the oil.

Internal combustion engines are comprised of numerous types of metals and coatings. There are a handful of laboratories, Blackstone being one, that have a database and therefore a good idea of what a "normal" amount of wear looks like in oil samples.

So, in addition to being able to test the quality of the oil in your oil sample, they can also see if there is anything that might be wearing prematurely within the engine.

I can say for sure Blackstone knew I had a main bearing failure in one of the samples I sent them, a turbo bearing failure in another.

Merit Gas Stations; that's a name I haven't heard for forty years or so. The last one I knew of in NH was in Manchester next to the bridge that went over the Merrimack River.

I think their first station was in Watertown Square in Massachusetts.....

Question to Poor Richard:
Why do you recommend to bump up the oil weight to 10W ?
The Subi owner's manual recommends the 10W..

Thanks !

Marvel Mystery Oil at Oil change ?
 

Just another question relating to oil....

Has, or does anyone add 'Marvel Mystery Oil, at Oil change ?
If so, what advantages does this product provide.

I know the military buys this product in 55 gal drums, and uses in vehicles.

Thoughts ?

Ha!!!
 

MMO was/is made in Port Chester, N.Y.
My home-town high school (Ct.) was close enough that we could get to Vahsen's bar for a delicious lunch of rare roast beef on a roll w/ a cold beer- N.Y. legal age was 18- and get back in time for a certs!

Pretty much yes. I would start out around 7500 miles and see what blackstone would say as far as how much life left is in the oil I sent. Then if they said I could go say 3000 miles more I might add only 1000 miles instead (e.g. 8500 miles) on the next round and test again. I wanted plenty of margin. Like at least 1000 miles less than they said I could go. Because I might not always change it on the dot. I didn’t want to pick a number out of thin air like some folks do. The oil I was using on the last car was VERY expensive. So in the end it saved me money and time, and time is money. And I’d never let anyone change my oil even when it was free. Seen to many screw ups. And it took less of my time to do it myself.

An important measurement is TBN explained here. There are many other parameters to indicate the oil is still functioning. They will give you all the numbers (and typical range for your motor and age) and then a written recommendation. Sort of like what you get from a blood test. It’s not black and white.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn

And no, the most common reason for testing oil is NOT litigation. It’s probably the least common.

I sometimes add about a half-pint of Marvel Mystery Oil to the gasoline tank to keep the valve area at the top of the 4-cyl engine clean from oil grunge build-up. MM-Oil is a detergent that cleans the inside of carburetors/injectors and valves. It is owned by Turtle Wax which is a very reputable car care co.

For small engines like lawn mowers, snowblowers, and outboards that get stored away for months, it's good to put some in the gasoline and run it before storing it away.

What's a bad thing to do is to add MM-Oil to the oil if you use synthetic oil because MM-Oil and synthetics do not combine and mix together. They stay separate and somehow co-exist within the engine?

According to their website, MMO has no issue mixing with any and all synthetic oils...

https://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/faqs/

Dan

Oh .... ok ..... maybe the MM-Oil got changed or something so it's compatible with the widely used synthetics. Was not the case in the past, like ten years ago, before it got bought by Turtle Wax.

The first post indicated you were using 5W.

I suggested 10W because I've seen 0W and 5W oils consumed by Subarus when they have a few miles on them. Nothing to be alarmed about, just a thing the boxer engines like to do apparently.