Braun Bay Rafting Bill
 

Betsey Patten spoke about the Braun Bay anti rafting bill at the last Selectmen meeting. It's here on the MCA site. ( towards the end of part one around 58 minutes).
She said the hearing date is 1/21 , but the House website has not published that yet.

Start writing
 

This is the time for people to start writing and calling their representatives.

I also recommend writing Ms Patten. Don't blow your cool and give a ranting email or letter. Concise, logical writings are what get their attention. Food for thought.

This is a case where the few want to impact the many. It's a lake with boats on it. What's more to understand?

Many of us contribute significantly to the local and State economy. If this passes, I will cancel my one week reservation in Moultonborough to show my appreciation. Meredith hotels seems to like my money, maybe I'll go there instead.

More coming
 

Hold on to whatever you have left.

After the SL bill, and this rafting bill, there are supporters that wants to regulate the size of boats and the horse power. There are folks that are under the imperssion that Winnipesaukee needs to be the next Squam lake. It will raise waterfront property values. ou can see that now as lake front properties are consolidated and sold at astronomical prices. Such as the multi million dollar sale in Meredith. I believe that was originally 4 seperate lots.

That is why we need to stand up and be counted.

Summary
 

For those who did not watch the video:

Statements from Ms. Patten:
1. Stated she does not know the NH afting laws (but is proposing state bill about one).

2. Stated that her bill is in response to complaints from residents around Bruan Bay

3. Stated that the upcoming hearing will include statements from Bruan Bay residents.

Can someone from Moultonborough make a public records request to Ms Patten to get:
1. Name(s) of complaintants?
2. Nature and number of complaints by party?

I could do this but makes more convincing argument to come from a resident.
Does someone know what the stance is from NHMP on this issue?
What is the stance from the boat dealers/marinas in Moultonborough?

With very few sandbars on the lake, this should be a rallying cry for boaters to be heard.

Anti-Boat legislator
 

Here is the proposed bill:http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hous...er=HB1466.html

Here is the person to flood with emails and letters.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hous...?member=376041

Representative Betsey Patten (r)
Carroll- District 04
Seat #:4007
Incumbent
Home Address:
46 Patten Hill Road
Moultonborough, NH 03254-2657
Phone: (603)253-6927
Email: [email protected]

I called her just now. She says she has gotten much more support for the rafting ban than opposition to it. Sounds like (as with other topics on this forum) the opinions of those who post here are not reflecting the opinions of the majority.
Here's a better use of our time;
I don't understand why nobody is making a big deal about the way the State confiscated the sand bar off Ellacoya State Park. The beautiful sandy bottom is only a couple of feet deep out to about 150 yards from shore. The water is the cleanest in the lake. When I was a kid, that was the best place on the lake to swim, snorkel, fish, raft, and learn to ski. Then the state roped it all off to keep boats out. WHY? There is room there for at least fifty boats there. And there are no home owners there to bother...it is state owned shore front. The must have about four acres of water surface roped off and even on the busiest days of the year, the park guests might use a quarter of it. The entire western two thirds of the roped off area barely sees a swimmer. There is still plenty of room for the beach guests on the eastern end towards Lake Shore Park. Why do they have all that water roped off? How can we get those ropes removed and get permission to let boaters raft there again?
Let's call our reps and get a bill introduced to make Ellacoya a rafting zone again.

Ms Patten
 

I called and spoke with Ms. Patten. The #1 complaint from residents near Braun Bay is the number of boats.

Not noise, not trash. Boats. The goal of this legislation is to thin out Braun Bay.

I informed her that changing the rafting law would have no affect since most boats are not tied up anyways and some are simply not properly spaced and it's just a matter of enforcing the existing regulations.

She mentioned that porti-pottis on the fish and game land were given as an idea but apparently not well received by shore owners. Shore front owners will never be satisfied as long as anyboat is near their property IMO.

I did mention to her that the State of NH needs to acquire land to protect future access.

Please folks, give her a call and write letters. If you don't speak up now your ability to enjoy the lake will continue to be eroded.

New law clarification?
 

Sorry, i'm not a lawyer...

Does this mean that rafting control has gone from the Kona area to the whole Braun Bay from long point to Far Echo?

Sounds to me if three 3 boat rafts are on the bay, anywhere people can't form more that three 2 boat rafts in kona.

Am I reading this right?

Misty Blue

NHMP Official complaint numbers on Braun Bay
 

I contacted NHMP. Here are the official complaint numbers from Braun Bay last year. Hundreds of boats over the summer and 6 complaints (safe passage violation would not be Braun Bay specific IMO).

So essentially two residents complaining and Ms. Patten is trying to pass a state law to restrict access to Braun Bay, a very popular sandbar.

For the record, Ms Patten also did not contact or consult with the NHMP about this legislation. She also is a non-boater who "hasn't been on Braun Bay in a long time." Quote is from my phone conversation with her.

Directly from NHMP:
In response to your inquiry, I offer the following;

The Marine Patrol received 10 calls for service this past boating season for the Braun Bay area. One call was simply reporting a drifting boat after a windy evening. The other nine calls were as follows:

6 Rafting Violations/Noise Complaints (includes the report of an intoxicated person)

2 reports from boaters

4 complaints from residents. One resident was responsible for three of the calls.



2 Safe Passage Violations

1 from a boater reporting skiers too close to other boats

1 from resident reporting PWC activity too close to shore

1 Sea Plane Complaint (3 calls about this same incident, 1 boater and 2 nearby residents)

I am not sure what the official delineation mark would be for Braun Bay. NHMP would have to declare some kind of marker as the boundary or enforcement could get sticky real fast.

You need to contact her and let her know your stance on this issue.

Her news proposal:
270:133 Braun Bay. No person shall form or allow the boat which he or she is operating or in charge of to be a member of a raft consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay at any time when there are already 3 rafts consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay. In this section, “raft” shall have the same meaning as in RSA 270:42, IV. Any person who violates this section shall be guilty of a violation.

Based on the current sign at Braun Bay we are already restricted from any rafts consisting of more than 2 boats, so a raft of 3 or more boats is currently restricted. If her bill passes as is can we have up 3 rafts consisting of 3 or more boats in Braun Bay......

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...1&d=1250705228

Chase1

I got clarification from the NHMP today. Although there are many "bays" by common name on the lake, none of them have an official delineation mark as to where they begin and end. Her bill, if it were to pass, would be 100% unenforceable.

I can also tell you that NHMP stated that they do not support the bill as written and they were never consulted on the language in which it was drafted.

However, during my discussion with Ms Patten that her bill would be ineffective, she indicated her goal is to reduce the number of boats in the bay and she would amend the bill if necessary.

I actually almost didn't want to bring this up as if a legislator is too lazy/dumb as to draft an ineffective bill, it deserves to get killed in a committee and let them chew on it for another year.

If you are sitting on the sidelines, you better start writing and calling your legislator before you're impacted. It takes 5 minutes of your time.

I think you have given Ms. Patten her own personal government epitaph. "too lazy/dumb" to do the people's work well! Ms. Patten, YOU ARE A LOSER and need to resign, because you don't have a clue of what a People's representative is all about! I vote for lazy, as you obviously didn't talk to too many people about this issue!

More info
 

So this bill is being heard by the Resources, Recreation, & Development committee.

See here: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hous....aspx?code=H22

Here is the email to the entire committee:
HouseResourcesRecreationandDevelopme....state.n h.us

As always, let your voice be heard or be willing to suffer the consequences of complacency.

Committee Email
 

As a member of the RR & D Committee, I have not received any emails on this bill (HB1466). To address everybody on the committee requires a "~" as the first character in the address.

[email protected]. nh.us
This bill has not been scheduled yet, only assigned to the RR & D Committee.

Be sure your email includes your address, and Winnipesaukee connection, not just your name.

Rep. Chris Christensen
Hillsborough Dist 19
Merrimack, NH

Email
 

Chris, thank you for the heads-up. I sent a very detailed email to the committee and it did not get bounced back so I am very suprised to hear that you have not received any correspondence.

I will send it again.

not sure that email is valid
 

I received this notice when i tried to send an email to the commitee:

"This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Delivery to the following recipients failed."

[email protected]. nh.us

Update: The space in the address caused the failure since the domain would not be recognized. I cut/pasted the address directly from Descant's email, so anyone else who does that must delete the space

Could it be the space before nh.us

Committee email
 

I have received two emails so far. One on each side of the issue. Presumably the rest of the committee has received these as well.

I cannot explain a "space" in the committee address since I cut and pasted the address from the NH.gov web site.

Chris, can you state your view on this issue?

BTW was this property once owned by Dennis Koslowsky of Tyco fame?

I can't believe I'm reading this....
 

I'm usually a very calm person but after reading what may happen in Braun Bay I had to reply. First of all, I am a Winni vacationer and have spent the last four years renting on Bear Is which includes spending time in Braun Bay enjoying the company of fellow boaters. It makes me sick to think that NH legislators would consider a law restricting the number of boats in Braun Bay to, if I understand the proposal, less than ten boats based on four complaints, three from the same person. This insane law would take away one of the only locations to raft boats on Winni that is enjoyed by the boating public. I have never met a group of people that are more pleasent and fun to be around than the people I have met at Braun Bay. Am I missing something here? Less people in Braun Bay means what? I can't see boats from my lake house? You live on a Lake and boating/rafting are part of the life style. The way the proposed bill reads, in my opinion, is vague at best and I agree with the rest of the posts that the bill is unclear. I keep wondering how stupid politicians get in office. I can tell you that if Braun Bay rafting is curtailed my wife and I along with the friends we vacation with will head to another lake. Maybe that is your desire to limit the number of people on the lake. So I pose this question; is this what the good people in Moultonborough want? The property owners will lose income from the rentals, the grocery stores and restraunts will have fewer customers along with the gas stations, corner stores, ice cream shops, etc. I can take my hard earned dollars and spend them elsewhere. WAKE UP PEOPLE!! Maybe I was wrong about NH.........Live Free or Die for the choosen few.

I believe it was once own by the head of COMPAQ before it was sold to HP. He was an avid performance boat fan who sponsored the offshore boat races on Lake Winnipesaukee back in the 90's.

That's what I recall too, the guy from Compaq, and he built the walls.

Braun Bay RaftingBill
 

I sent an Email to the Committee using the ~ symbol on Saturday evening. Within two hours I had an acknowledgement from Chris Christensen. He said he was leaning against the bill but wanted to get more info. He also indicated personal involvement by voters would go a long way to defeating it. He also would talk to anyone about it.

At least Mr. Christensen is willing to listen to the people. There are too many state reps. that unfortunately are beyond ignorant to the effects of the laws they are voting on. Many seem to only vote on things without listening to the facts and understand the actual effects of the law. Or are in the pockets of well funded groups and lobbiests. This will ruin a natural resource that should be enjoyed by all. Another "feel good" piece of legislation that only stretches the MP's resources and drives people out of our state hurting the already fragile economy.

Braun Bay is one of the most visited and in my opinion one of the major reasons many people visit Lake Winnipsaukee. Why should a few complaints from less then 5 people ruin it for generations of people who have visited the lake over the decades!?!

I think we all need to band together and let our reps. know how we feel. The boating community of NH is represented very well here on Winni.com and we can make a difference. Please don't just voice your opinion. Make it known to the state legislature.

Who are they?
 

Evidently you have researched this and have the data that gives the names of the reps that are ignorant as to what laws they are voting for. Can you give me the names of the reps and what laws they don’t understand?


What lobbyist and well funded groups are you talking about.


If you can give me this information I will write each one of them to make sure they do their job right.

Evidently you didn't read the beginning where the sponsor of the bill wasn't completely aware of the effects and was only sponsoring the bill based on a couple of complaints.

Statements from Ms. Patten:
1. Stated she does not know the NH afting laws (but is proposing state bill about one).

To me this would warrent as ignorant in this situation. There are plenty of other bills out there that when you speak to the reps. they are unaware of the bill no matter the substance. I dont have the time to do your research for you. sorry.

If you want to write everyone of them to go over their voting records have at it.

Nor did you do any research for yourself!

It's not fair to make statements about a group of people and then not have the data to back it up.

This post is talking about one certain rep and you lump the rest of them in with her. That is just not fair!

I do not need to justify myself to you nor will I.

However I said Many not "all". It was refreshing to see that Rep. Christensen is willing to listen to the people.

There are many issues being discussed at the state house. And I don't know if you are involved or not. However I am and from first hand experience it is unfortunate how many Reps. do not understand the legislation "not only this one" before they cast their votes. Many simply vote along party lines.

What seems to be unfortunate here is that if a lawmaker votes for something that you don't like, then they didn't do their research properly and therefore they are ignorant.

I firmly believe that we need to give our legislative body more credit for what they do even if they don't vote our way each time.

[QUOTE=Yosemite Sam;116886]What seems to be unfortunate here is that if a lawmaker votes for something that you don't like, then they didn't do their research properly and therefore they are ignorant.

That is not what OCDACTIVE said YS, I suggest you go back, read and comprehend what he posted.

Please explain to me what he said that I didn't comprehend?

Post #26 should explain it for you. Glad I could help you. :D

Thank you. Now it is clear as mud!

Comprehension - the act or action of grasping with the intellect.

Not all of us have those skills evidently. :laugh:

First I have utmost respect for those who are willing to serve "the people".

Also, there have been many votes against my thoughts such as the gaming bill. The data from a social perspective did not recommend it, financially it did. Although what I wanted did not happen the data was there and the current legislative body did what it thought was in the best interests of "the people".

This bill clearly is not in the best interest of the majority of the people and the sponsor themself by her own admission is not clear on the current laws yet she is presenting this bill.

Back on topic, what are your thoughts on this bill? Or are you just trying to find an argument on a topic because we haven't seen eye to eye on past issues? I noticed this thread has been up for quite awhile and you hadn't responded before... Be careful there are names for people who do that. Not saying that is the case here..... :rolleye2::confused:

Yo-Sam. All you have to do is listen to any of the debates from the Mass race for senator and you can see how accurate OCD's observations were. Look at the change and transparancy we got. The people serving on the national level used to be the cream of the crop and the locals were not bad but not the same caliberr. I think he was being polite and thank the powers to be that there are still reps. like Mr Christensento deal with. It is impossible to get any of my reps to even talk to the little people!

This proves my point that if someone disagrees with you or ask you to explain something that they don't understand, then they are either ignorant or a troll.

Does asking for clarification about something make me a troll?

From what I have read here about the Braun Bay proposed bill, Ms Patten hasn't done the proper research needed to convince me that this bill is needed.

You pretty much nailed it OCD.