HUB status in Moultonborough
 

I saw that a cost estimate for the HUB was on the agenda for the selectmen's meeting this past Thursday. Does anyone have any info?

It was actually a "The Hub" proponents request for funds from capital reserves to get a cost estimate for the plans; two contractors for a total of $23,050.

The Hub proponents realize a cost estimate needs to be done, now, for the bond etc. and the required 3/5ths vote at the 2023 May town meeting.

Some estimates thrown out there are $15-$20 millon, at today's prices, with a look to future price change.

Here's their web site ..... https://thehubmoultonborough.com ..... and budda-bing-bang-boom ..... hut-hut-hut ..... :patriot::banana::patriot: ..... it includes "a 25-meter 5-lane pool for swimming lessons, water aerobics, and water polo" ..... plus a 40-foot therapy pool.

Also included is a Multipurpose Room with a basketball court layout, walking track, and accordion bleacher seating.

Well, well, well ..... the cold weather winter season happens every year on a regular schedule so these indoor exercise, basketball, pickleball, swim pool water sports facilities will be TOTALLY FANTASTIC.

This looks TOTALLY FANTASTIC and will be a very welcome addition for everyone in the area! ..... :patriot::banana::patriot:

i hope they told them they will take under advisement for the next year

FLL maybe you can move

So now we get an estimate in a few months....or a guess.... about ESTIMATED costs for something that may be built in 2 years. No architectural drawings are available to develop better estimates. No business would ever go out to build something without solid plans and FIRM bids from qualified builders. We have an outside group (The Hub) who surveys folks and have determined a NEED from a portion of the residents. Anyone see the results of the needs review? Who is going to provide the ten year annual operating costs for this behemoth? Or is this another guess in the offing? The legislative body deserves more than estimates and a passive Board of Selectmen so far. The BOS needs a full out financial analysis of the total project costs, bonding fees, operating costs, etc .etc. prepared by qualified neutral parties...certainly not a town employee. It is time to shift the focus to creating a non-for-profit organization to build and operate this facility on town donated land and not strap the taxpayers with another burden. If the NEED is there, then certainly there is a NEED to have those folks build and operate it.

Tummy man is spot on. With all of the fund raising activities the Hub group is supposedly involved in why not use their own funds for the “cost estimates”? Just another example of their hands in the taxpayers’ pockets.

Probably looking at a design-build rather than a design-bid-build format.

Is SO very easy to see the architectural drawings ....... go to www.moultonboroughnh.gov/major-projects and click on "The Hub - Community Activity & Aquatic Centre." ....... :patriot::banana::patriot:

By architectural drawings, I meant the detailed building plans that builders need for all structural design elements including a full bill of materials, etc. All that is available are artist sketches, etc.

Five different pages of architectural drawings .... :eek2: .... made by www.stewarchitects.com, Laconia NH is what's easy to see when you click on "The Hub-Community Activity & Aquatic Centre" at www.moultonboroughnh.gov/major-projects.

The vote for the $23,000 was 4-1, with Kevin Quinlan against it.
By the way, Karel Crawford, who voted for it, is running for State Representative. She will not be getting my vote.

Design-Build means that doesn't need to exist... just renderings.

Design-Bid-Build would need the plans to bid the job...

Design, build ...


https://www.symmetrybuilders.net/sym...he%20developer.

https://granitegrok.com/blog/2022/08..._campaign=Grok

So, what the heck ... is GraniteGrok ... www.granitegrok.com/about ... with their motto ... "Dominating the Political Bandwidth in New Hampshire"... so what's this all about?

Definition ..... https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dominate ..... :patriot::banana::patriot: ...... "dominate"

Even as a person who generally likes this sort of thing, it's hard for me to understand why a majority of year-rounders would want to pay for this. But I wonder how much of the cost will be borne by locals and how much from second homers. Does anyone know the percent of property value attributable to second homes? Second best number might be percent on the water?

Also--can Moultonborough get other towns or people, such as FLL, to bear a portion of the cost in exchange for membership?

They could. But I think if you have paying members that the insurance coverage has to be different.

"The Hub" proposal is for a town property, not a private club. Anyone paying taxes to Moultonborough will pay, resident or not, second home or not.

Presently, the tax rate is 6.98/1000. How much of that will change if "The Hub" with the bond is approved by 3/5ths vote at the 2023 town meeting?

Payments, if applicable, will be for particuler functions in/at the center.

He asked about non-residents/non-taxpayers using the facility.

since this has been turned down for years why do we continue to elect selectmen who want it

From a (seasonal) outsider, it does seem very weird.

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How close has the vote been?

I agree that what you write is 100% true, but it is misleading. Waterfront homes, occupied mostly(?) by nonresidents pay the lion's share of property taxes. Let's call that amount 75%, just for fun. This enables the year rounders to build something for themselves while only paying 25% of the tab. In essence, they get a 75% discount on community centers, schools, and various other things of zero value to Summer people.

I'm not saying this is good or bad, or that the HUB should be built. Only pointing out the political/economic dynamic

75% fairly close for non- resident taxpayers
 

I believe that FS’s number is fairly close….at least that’s what it was about 10 years ago. It really boggles my mind that this HUB entourage is moving forward, full steam ahead, given the current state we’re in with inflation and other pressing issues. People are hurting…..and they are worried about putting gas in their cars/ trucks, food on the table and HEATING their homes this coming season! I am not whining on my own behalf, but I keep thinking of what the vast sums of money we are talking about could do to benefit our citizens who are in need….specifically, the retirees on fixed incomes, for example. I don’t know whether this whole situation makes me more sad or angry…probably both. This project is a terrible idea, particularly at this time.

SS adjusts to inflation.
One of the complaints the FED has on trying to get the inflation under control.

Where do you see that?
The context was who pays for the build, not the use of the center. Maybe you want to debate his use of the word "cost".

Also, rentals etc. of the center I did address:
If that is what you meant.

Not if you understand taxation in Moultonboroiugh. Moultonborough has been a cash cow for many years. Thank you! to the MA, NY, Conn. and other non-resident Moultonborough taxpayers, including NH, for providing the funding.

It is understood that lakefront property in Moultonborough is the major contributor to the tax base.

''Also--can Moultonborough get other towns or people, such as FLL, to bear a portion of the cost in exchange for membership?''

I found it through careful reading.

The SPT is not transferred to Concord, but used as an offset to determine educational grants to each district.
https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2021-02...of-donor-towns

What are you talking about? This ...?

You will be considered a United States resident for tax purposes...

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/inte...-presence-test

Where does being a US citizen come into "The Hub" posts?

How do you get "donor towns" from "The Hub" a private endeavor to create a town building, on present town property? This isn't part of the Claremont decisions and has nothing to do with education.

Your post:

https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2021-02...of-donor-towns


There is no "membership" for "the Hub". It is proposed as a town property. There may be rentals for weddings etc. memberships to pickleball clubs, tennis clubs, etc that are supplemental to the build and maintenance (please don't go there).

You need to google some more.

Pointing out that you may soon be a real cash cow.

Sure, they have a walk-in fee. For example anyone can go play pickleball in Laconia and it costs $3/two hours time ...... and buoy-O-buoy ..... is it ever busy, busy, busy .... so many people. What Laconia needs is a floating pickleball court in Weirs Beach on the dock spot that used to be home to The Dive for one summer.

How's about a county owned, floating community center, that travels all around Lake Winnipesaukee visiting different towns and is owned and operated by Belknap County ...... just like Gunstock Ski Area!

...... maybe a floating gambling casino operated by the Belknap Indigenous Lost Indian Tribe from high up yonder Alton Mountain ...... ugh! ....;)

The town is already saying MOOO MOOO MOOO!

I (resident) went one time, years back to play pickleball on Moultonborough town courts ... run by the town rec. dept. ... with volunteer instructors ... $5 bucks!

https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/sit...eball_2022.pdf

I believe that Laconia already has the extra insurance...
As only a few recreational outlets are resident/taxpayer only.

"The Hub" will not be taxpayer/resident only. Nobody ever said it would be. The pitch will be made at some point that the center can charge for using the pool
or other amenities, non-residents included, and discount the residents or no charge to residents.

I have complete confidence that the town will have adequate insurance. Extra insurance is probably in the mind of the those unsure of adequate insurance.

New FB group
 

The folks from MOOOOOultonborough need their own FB group where they could argue using real names. I nominate ThinkXingu as a non-resident shorefront resident to set it up. He is well known for FB Admin skills. Somehow, there is less animosity when you post under your real name.

They've already got more than their share of bloviaters and don't come to this forum because of the same repetitive posters.

Thanks for your vote of confidence, but as a seasonal property owner I'm totes fine with "legit" Moultonboroughians running the show!

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Hmm, I can read that two ways, Moultonborough-ians or Moultonbo- roughians. lol

I would love to see something like a YMCA come into town, isolated from politics. That would be the ideal situation IMO.

It's too easy for people who are comfortable (or VERY comfortable) to remember that many folks in our area are struggling. My posts should have noted that. I agree that it would not be right to do this in a way that hit people on fixed incomes