My 2 cents
 

It all comes back to personal responsibility.

No one was forced to take a mortgage for more than they could afford to pay back. From the push of too much government regulation we have created part of this mess. A quote from the article sa_meredith shared:

“Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.”

This lifestyle of living beyond our means is unfortunately unsustainable and quickly coming to an end. This problem is not isolated to the housing market; it is visible in all parts of the economy. Car leases, credit cards, loans for everything. Everyone is over extending themselves and one day these bills will all be due.

To put it simply we are maxed out.

What is the problem with the housing market, why aren’t homes selling?

Housing values kept getting pushed up by easy credit during the housing bubble. Now we reached a point where the housing market is trying to reset itself to there true market values.

Regardless of what we do now it’s going to be painful but I believe we need to let these assets reset. In addition to giving Paulson unchecked powers to spend our money, the bailout is going to prop up the housing market and the same banks that practiced poor lending practices in the first place. These are the same people who led us into this mess and now we are going to trust them to give us the solution to get us out of it?

Besides what the 850 billion dollar bailout will cost us on the surface, we need to consider the cost it will have to our dollar. Very few people are considering the effects this bailout will have on our buying power. This is going to affect the poor and people on fixed incomes the most.

The Federal Reserve (Private bank, not elected by the people, taxation without representation?) is going to create this money out of thin air like always, further debasing our dollar and driving up the price of everything in the process. The inflation tax in addition to the close to a trillion dollars is something we can not afford.

If we don’t bailout the banks what will happen according to the president?

The credit market will freeze up and it’ll be difficult to acquire credit.
-It will be, but easy credit is the reason we are in this mess.

If we don’t pass the bailout our 401k will suffer and our retirement will be in jeopardy.
-If we do pass this bill it is going to lower the value of our buying power with our 401k anyway. Without addressing the actual problem that caused this mess, we can expect we will have to bailout more companies in the future, further lowering the value of our 401ks.

Until we address the bubbles we create from the Federal Reserve and fiat money we will not be able to solve our economic problems. We at the very least need to have some congressional oversight of the fed to make sure they are making the best decisions for us.

Every time the fed puts more money into the financial system they are devaluing our money.

The bailouts solution to the problem is to pump-in (create) another 850 billion into the system to cover assets that are essentially worthless. If these assets had any true value we wouldn’t have to bail them out. (The whole idea of these assets giving us a return in the future is faulty. The reason we are bailing them out in the first place is because of a credit bubble that drove the prices up over true market value.) So the bailout is going to save the system by means of more fiat money, driving our living standard down more?

We need to allow the free market to work this out without government interference. If we keep patching the problem rather than fix it, we are only going to enlarge the bubble and make it that much more painful when it finally does burst.

An appropriate quote from Thomas Jefferson:
“The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.”

You are so right Mike M. Personal responsibility is such a big thing! I also agree, we need to allow this to play out without government interference. The more the government gets into our lives the worse things get. This would only be the first step. I don't know if they really know what will help.

Anyone else see the quarter page ad Laconia Savings Bank ran in the Union Leader today? In a nut shell it says "We didn't make sub prime mortgages, we didn't lend to Wall Street, and because we lent our money wisely we have plenty of capitol and we are still making loans."

Judging by today's mail Amex still wants me for a customer and Countrywide still wants to lend me more money.

So, if this is the trend with the Main Street banks, where's the problem? Sure smells like Wall Street.

This money is coming from one place. The printing presses. The net effect will be to instantly devalue the US Dollar by about 10%. At the same time, a substantial portion of this bail out money will go to foreign investors, not Americans. I'm sure that will help the country!

On tonight's WMUR news Carol Shea Porter is saying she likes the bill now because it contains "money for disaster victims". Funny, but I seem to remember that there was NO money for the individuals who's homes were damaged in the tornado and floods here in New Hampshire.

Sweetening this bill with things like tax cuts, disaster relief, FDIC insurance expansion and the like is nothing more than legislative terrorism. If these are good things they should be voted in anyway, and not used as pork to grease this bill in. And of course, no one is saying just how much extra these things will add to the cost of this bill.

Even if the Feds get a great deal on these distressed properties and make money when they sell them do you really think that they will use that money to repay the debts they ran up? If so, I have just two words for you: Social Security.

I hope everyone who dislikes this bill will call Carol Shea Porter at (202) 225-5456 tomorrow and let her know that if she votes for this bill, you won't vote for her. Pass the number on to your friends.

wan't more bacon with that?
 

There was $160B of added pork to buy the votes needed to pass this bill. I say vote the whole bunch out. We're headed down the long slide. Should be able to buy some cheap waterfront in the next year.....if you still have any money.:(

And who is Franklin D. Raines?

• He is accused by The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight OFHEO), the regulating body of Fannie Mae, of abetting widespread accounting errors, which included the shifting of losses so senior executives, such as himself, could earn large bonuses
• On December 21, 2004 Raines accepted what he called "early retirement" from his position as CEO while U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission investigators continued to investigate alleged accounting irregularities
• In 2006, the OFHEO announced a suit against Raines in order to recover some or all of the $90 million in payments made to Raines based on the overstated earnings
• In an editorial in August 27, 2008 titled "Tough Decision Coming", the Washington Post editorial staff wrote that "Two members of Mr. Obama's political circle, James A. Johnson and Franklin D. Raines, are former chief executives of Fannie Mae."

Modest Proposal
 

It there is one thing we should all be able to agree on, it's that the level of partisan bickering and finger pointing in this country is completely debilitating to solving the problems the country faces today. There is no Party and no Party Leader from the President on down, Republican or Democrat who is without blame for the current mess. So rather than try to seek to place blame and light the partisan fires, how about we all seek to rise above that and work together constructively to find a long term solution.

I've been so glad to see this forum revive itself from the depths of extreme nastiness regarding the speed limit debate.

Let's not go down that path on this topic, okay?

If there's one thing that's true ...
 

... the above is it. Both parties have had their hand in this cookie jar for years. Just like the upcoming Social Securty mess it's been years in the making. And FWIW the major blame doesn't even go to the pols ... it goes to all those people who decided they'd live beyond what their means and commonsense dictate. You can fault the police for not catching the bank robber but let's not forget who robbed the bank in the first place.

Well said. It's time many of us looked in the mirror.

Freudenberg-Laconia to close
 

With the loss of 140 manufactoring jobs, the Freudenberg factory in Laconia is scheduled to close due to the big drop in sales of pickup trucks and SUV's. Freudenberg makes car parts, www.citizen.com, in an acre sized building at the Laconia Industrial Park.

So, where can the 140 employees go to find replacement union manufactoring jobs?

Who's hiring? Not Molex in Gilford. Not Packard in Ashland. Not Anna Lee in Meredith. Not Norton Pike in Littleton. Not Wasau Paper in Groveton. Not Hitchener in Littleton. They have closed.

Maybe at the huge new federal prison being built, up north, in Berlin? Goodbye manufactoring.....hello new prison....how's that for a message?

plant closing
 

It's funny...people have always enjoyed "poking fun" at the car business, and thinking, when business is bad..."too bad for them. They probably deserve it". Things like that. But most people have no idea how much the auto industry drives this country. Like the example above, of the plant in Laconia, the jobs that are dependent on people buying cars are countless. Not jobs at dealerships, but the "off shoot" jobs that are related to the auto industry.
I wish those 140 workers well...those 140 workers and all of the businesses in the area that are dependent on those workers having money to spend. And on and on it goes...

Who's hiring today? People who make money, that's who. People whose incomes are $100K, $200K, and above. Small businesses. Entrepreneurs.

Now, watch those people disappear when Obama kicks in his "tax the rich" policies. Money given to the government can not be used to expand a business and hire employees.

This'n That-I heard that in the bill the Bush tax cuts become permanent. Does anyone know for sure? If so, it might at least be harder for Obama to raise the taxes, although he can still do it. I totally agree with you, let's see how much the gov. can ruing small business now!!!

Walmart Hiring?
 

:D Isint Walmart Hiring?????????

BOY did that almost 1 trillion dollars help out the markets.... It is obvious that the market does not like what the gov has in store for them. The dow was down 800 points at one point today. What was the last time that we saw money being tossed at something make it correct. Look at the Big Pig in Boston!! You know what the workers used to say there? "Hide and go seek for a thousand a week". They put money into this "bailout" for freeking wooden arrow research!!!!! We all have to live with this decision for a long long time. So now I not only get to pay for my house but for a lot of other peoples as well because they did not "understand" that when you work at McD's you can not buy a house that costs 700 grand!! Ok I am done now I think my brain is about to explode.

Good thing you did not purchase any wooden arrows - $.39 tax on a $.30 arrow (that would really cause your brain to explode.:D). Now you know the real need for the adjustment for wooden arrows.

Thanks Bill
 

Great idea lets give everyone on welfare a mortgage as well :rolleye2::rolleye2:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...=&pagewanted=1

what, me worry?
 

So the market closes up 900 plus today. And some of you guys were worried... (he said, tongue firmly in cheek)


Message to Lester: We GOTTA have this one.
Go Sox!

Meow
 

The real question is whether this is a "dead cat bounce"? I certainly hope not!

Incidently, I don't think that you shouted loud enough for the Sox to hear you. After the Patriots game yesterday and the Sox game today I am actually glad to be heading to China tomorrow.

Jetskier:cool:

Now that people are realizing that it is not just US but the entire world that is hurting it does not seem so bad. Dollar got a LOT stronger in the last few days and this has more to do with England and other countries stepping up and injecting money along with the US. Most of that drop was panic driven by the media. Most companies are well run and sound. Now if they can address the business world getting loans then we should come out of this OK.

Were does a union guy go to get a union job? I am not a union guy but I do work with union guys a lot. IMO unions are a thing of the past. There is no doubt that they were needed but now they are ruining businesses by raising the costs of production to the point that companies in the US can not compete any more. My wife works for a huge fortune 50 company. They are laying many many people off. They moved production from a location in mass. and Utah over to Switzerland. Labor costs over there are much higher but the taxes are low. So what do people think will happen with Obama wants to raise them. IMO more manufacturing will run from this country.

My guess however is that this is a little bit of a dead cat bounce and expect it to drop again.

Unions are the main reason that America has lost all of its jobs.Their wage,benifit and retirement demands have driven out millions of jobs.Don't blame the business'.In Detroit,for example....guy making $35 an hour running a rivet gun all day.Calls in sick on monday,stays stoned at work all week and takes off at noon on friday.They can't fire him because of the union.
Even around here it's noticable.Sysco drivers (non union0 work alone and unload a tractor trailer.Budweiser drivers (union) show up in a little box truck with at least two,sometimes three guys.We tease them when they show up...I ask them "Hey,who's the clipboard operator today"

unions
 

Amen, amen, amen!
Although unions were needed, and indeed great things at one time, they now do nothing more than protect the slacker, and "over benefit" workers.
The sense of entitlement by an average union worker truly baffles me.

Seems to me that Unions have gone a bit far, not only that now that we have the DOL are they as neccessary as they used to be? They've become too powerful and can ruin a business.

I think recently I saw that Boeing was in real danger of bankruptcy and they lost an Air Force contract to Airbus. A lot of Americans cried foul because we lost to an overseas company and Americans were in danger of losing jobs. Congress I guess rethought the contract and gave it to Boeing, then a couple weeks later I hear that the Boeing workers are or may be going on strike. That is ridiculous, they came close to losing their jobs and now they strike? Seems stupid to me. I don't know the details of why they were striking, but it would seem trivial in light of losing your job coupled with the current economic conditions.

Forbes Magazine just named 3 NH communities - Concord, NH being one of the three communities (in a list of 10 communities!) - as "recession proof"...

Here's the article:

http://www.wmur.com/money/17735706/detail.html

You have to support the lakes region
 

Let's face it most of us are summer residents and spend a weekend here and there the rest of the year. We have always made it a point to do as much business as possible int he lakes region because we love it so much. I always fill up when in area. We buy things local to keep the businesses alive. We even go up to Mills Falls to do our Christmas shopping.

I just had the trim painted on my hours and the painter had no work. I felt bad, so I had him paint the main areas inside. Although it wasn't a big job, it made his day.

We always wait until we are around Meredith before we eat out or buy anything.

My point is if we don't support these local businesses they won't be there when we need them. Its got to be rough on the people who own businesses around the lake. Let's face it, regardless of what all the experts say good or bad, we are all tightening our belts and spending less.

We need to make sure when we support our local merchants. Spend the extra buck at the local hardware store instead of going to Home Depot back home.

This thing will turn around eventually. Until it does, those of us that are seasonal residents need to do everything we can to support the lake economy. Otherwise it will become a ghost town.

Good for you Sea n Ski.....I'm with you there.Rarely go to a big box store.rather get great service for just a little more money....recently got new computers at Lakes Region Computer in center Harbor and got great service.Try calling Staples if you have a problem.

I do agree with what you're saying and my husband and I try to do the same thing, however some "local" businesses have priced themselves right out of people's wallets. Anyone been to Jackson Star lately?? I don't think it's the summer or weekend people that make a difference so much but the year round people who have to pay the inflated prices all the time. They are the ones leaving to drive to Concord, Tilton, Conway to do their major shopping. The price gauging has got to stop if (some) local businesses want to stay competitive and thrive IMHO.

The end!
 

Well, as the starter of this thread, I felt it appropriate to post this.
On August 31st, the owner of the business I have worked for the past 21 years, will lock the doors, and will not be opening them on September 1st, or ever again.
A lot of blood, sweat, tears, and ass kissing as I climbed the ladder over the years. And now, to be kicked right off the ladder...oh well.
We certainly hung in there as long as we could, but in the end, the family owned business just can't go head to head with the superstore when it comes to big ticket items. Think "Home Depot" vs. "The Neighborhood Hardware Store".
So now I am a victim of the economy...but when one door closes, another opens...right?
Now, about those boat payments, fees for valet service, and the annual lease on the land for camp....

Terrible news. I hope you find some work quick.

Sorry to hear this, and I am sure it will not feel like it now, but in the end things do always happen for a reason.... I have been laid of twice in my career and both time, after a little struggle to get back on my feet have realized it was the kick I need to get myself going in a new direction.....

Hopefully things will fall into place for you best of luck

I am very sorry for you too sa and your boss and your company as well. It is so sad and scary what is happening to this country! Is your company in NH?

SA, I too feel very bad for you. It is a shame.

Things do happen for a reason and they will get better. I worked for the Gillette Company for 21 years and was let go about 2 years ago. I was able to take a year off and and have now been employed for 1 year.

I wish you the best.

SA that is really terrible, I wish you the best of luck in finding a position that will allow you to enjoy the things in life that you have worked hard for.

Like you, I have been through a few downturns in the economy. One of them ended up pushing me toward a new career. I hope it works out for you as well.

Best wishes

Best of luck....
 

Let me add to the list of those expressing sympathy for your plight, and the demise of the local business you devoted so much of your life too.....

Its truly ashame to read stories such as yours, and it really jumps out at you when it happens to one of your friends, even though our friendship is internet related. It truly personalizes and puts a face to the mind numbing statistics that I read daily on-line and in the print press.

I wish you the best and am sure you will come out stronger in the end....:)

Skip

sa that is a bummer! Whereabouts do you reside full time. I'm not sure if you mentioned that to me. Might as well start networking right here on the forum. Ya never know who knows someone who knows someone.... :laugh:

Perhaps a job as a book reviewer is in order... You've done well by me that's for sure.

BTW, I'm finished with #3 and moving on to #4 in the series. Thanks again! :)

sorry, sa...
 

...I hope a new opportunity is right around the corner. This economy is rough - I was laid off in October and have yet to find a full time job. I'm putting in time at 3 part-time jobs while I try to hang on. My husband builds houses for a living, so you can imagine what that's been like the past year. I've never seen anything like this. We keep telling each other things will turn around, we have to hang on to hope. We don't have much left to hang on to!! ;)

May that window open as the door closes.:)

sa, thats is a shame to hear. It seems like every week I hear of someone new that has lost work. Keep your head up and better things will come from it.

You are among friends
 

sa, as one that is 6 months removed from the "one door closes another opens" point, I am still looking for work myself. I know you cannot see the "things happen for a reason" issue right now, but believe me, it is for the best, you will never know while you live on this earth why you needed to lose the job at the point in time you did.

Maybe something bigger and better will come your way that you would not have even considered had you been working happily at your old job. Keep your chin up, and remember, even though it does not seem like it now, but there are people worse off than ourselves.

I will keep you in my prayers to find work quick along with myself and others in this forum who are in the same boat. Too bad we are not on a boat on the lake right now, but being among "friends" who know how we feel seems to help. ;)

thank you
 

I am simply floored by the kind words offered here on this forum...some by people I have never even met.
The post I made was simply meant to add to the "Bad Economy" aspect of the thread...but the responses are quite a different thing. And to be honest, make me a bit emotional...during what is already a very emotional time.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Being in sales for 22 years has certainly "hardened" me as a person, so I like to think I'll come out just fine.
It's just that, well, who wants to start out again at 42 Yrs old?
Uncharted territory for me...that's all.
Anyway...weather permitting, I'm going to try to bring the boat into Meredith Bay tommorow (blue and white Crown Line Bow Rider) at 8:30AM or so, hit George's for breakfast, and enjoy a bloody mary or two on the boat after. If anyone is in the area, and feels the need to quench their thirst, stop over and climb aboard. If it is rainy...well probably a no go.
Hazelnut...going to try to cruise over your way tommorow (Friday), late morning...I'll call your cell.
Again...thanks for the words of encouragement.
The forum comes thru yet again.

It is sad to read of the more and more people that the Stimulus is failing to help. Where are all these new and saved jobs? Where is all this debt we are leaving for our kids being used to our benefit? Perhaps if you want to go to work for Acorn recruiting illegal aliens to register under several different names to vote for the local Democratic candidates you can find some work. And while it is little consolation, the good side to being unemployed is that you get to send less of your earnings to DC to be redistributed. And now you can join the millions more that become dependents of society every day...now a majority of us. This is really sad.
I lost my job last year, but have been able to make more money shorting the stock market. Even as it inches back up in this phone recovery, there are many opportunities to turn the bad economy into a profit. It is unfortunate we have to turn to tactics like this to get by if we aren't willing to go on the dole. Socialism has its benefits though...pretty soon jobs will be unnecessary.
Sorry for the rant, but you pushed my button with this.

SA I found Linkedin to be a very good way to find old co-workers and network for new opportunities.

It can be very stressful trying to find a job and getting depressed is possible. You're only 42, you have plenty of time to do whatever you want.

Now is the time when you find out who your true friends are. A friend of mine just got layed off, luckly I could scramble a contract job for him, at least he has something to keep him afloat while he plans his next step. Maybe your friends have similar opportunities.

As a salesmen, you already know how to sell, your new job is to sell yourself. Sounds corny but it is true.