"Adequate info"
 

If you're buying, selling, financing real estate (or your boat) based on info on this Forum, you need to re-think your plans. Talk to YOUR OWN CPA, and investment advisor. If you have only ONE, you are probably under-advised. At the same time, you need some self-education so you're not paying these folks 1% each for overlapping advice. And note that Fisher investments and similar, who has a lot of convincing commercials, charges twice what you pay to many brokers who offer many more services through related banks.

Amen [emoji1317]!!!! Very well said!


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This whole house of cards will fall when the next recession hits. No one ever really knows what causes them until after they hit but it will happen. It's unfortunate but there are winners and losers when the dust settles.

I didn't say they are all buying multi million dollar lakefront homes. Not everyone can afford the vacation home of their dreams.
There are still modest affordable vacation homes in the mountains and around the smaller lakes of NH. Each family has to buy to their level of ability.
I know of a couple around your age with 3 small kids that just bought a 2br camp with beach rights on lake Ossipee with cash from their the refi of their primary residence.

I know this is a Lake Winnipesaukee forum but I don't believe I said everyone is buying vacation homes around Lake Winni with cash from their primary home.
A vacation home can be anywhere people go to vacation. The economy doesn't revolve around just NH.

OK that’s fine it’s not New Hampshire it’s all over the country but you show me where you found the statistics that say most people are cashing out the equity in their primary residence to buy vacation homes for cash. I just don’t think it’s true. honestly I think it’s nonsense.

And we could all speculate on whether they’ll be a recession or a large correction and the prices of real estate will plummet none of us knows for sure and as we seen recently the government and businesses alike including banks will do everything they can to try to avoid going into an extended term recession.


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I'm sorry I can't give you statistical proof. I get my information from my best friends son who is one of the top 50 residential mortgage brokers in the country, he works through Leader Bank in Needham Ma. He tells me where the money is going and I believe him.

Your source is one person really? I put no faith in that whatsoever. When you come back with some real statistics then we can continue the conversation


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We don't need to continue this conversation. We really don't see eye to eye on many things.
You're free to believe what and who you want as am I.

One other thing folks keep forgetting.

A "Cash" offer does NOT mean the buyer has the cash sitting in their checking account.

All it means they are willing to write the contract with no contingency for a bank loan approval. With high demand it was often a necessity if you wanted a property to make a "cash" offer. I've done "cash" offers with every intention of getting a loan and I was confident I'd qualify for the loan and had more than enough down payment that would cover a low appraisel.

In the past you could save money making a "cash" offer because that was a more secure offer to the seller than a higher financed offer.

Although some sellers now demand that you have "proof of funds". But that does not mean you have to use those funds you used as proof. You could show them your retirement account and then go get a loan.

So nobody knows how all these homes were actually financed. Only what was written on the contract, which is totally irrelevant.

But I will say, there are a lot of people with a lot of cash.

I've "financed" every way imaginable :) Including have a bank loan approval on the contract when I intended to pay cash.

The only thing really required is you show up with a check on closing day. Where the money comes from and what was on the contract could be any thing.

My guess is 1/3 of the "cash" purchases were true cash purchases. They could have sold another property (possible with a bridge loan), refinance another property or did a standard mortgage. My guess is they surely had hefty down payments on hand though.

Also with the Septic Assessment requirement for water front, you can walk away from any contract if you just don't like the assessment. Most buyers don't know that though. So there is little risk in making a cash offer initially. And the assessment is technically not due until closing !!

For our last purchase I had money from a sale (that had no mortgage), but not enough to cover the new home. But I made cash offers well over what I had in cash. We had a good sized equity loan on our primary with no balance (great advice someone once gave me). So I just used that. But the seller demanded showing we had the cash so I showed them our IRA, which I never used. It's all fun and games.

Exactly, many cash offers are financed after the sale is made. No one really knows where all the money comes from other than the person writing the check.
When I said people are taking money out of their primary homes to buy vacation homes in cash it doesn't mean that all the money is coming from there but people have been tapping their home equity to the max because of these low rates that we may never see again. Many people are in debt to the max with the rates this low. Is it wise, only time will tell.
I'm just happy I don't have to worry about debt any more. I do have to admit though, that if I was younger I would be taking advantage of these low rates also because they will only go up from here.

Yes you are free to believe what you want but I do find it hypocritical when somebody post something you don’t believe you always ask for back up statistics and then the one time I ask for back up statistics and you can’t produce them. Have a great day


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I don't ask for statistics because I don't have faith in where they come from. I'm old school and believe in people I've had business relationships with through the years.
I think we're done here.

Maybe this has already been mentioned in this thread, according to www.zillow.com this 105 Hauser Estates Rd, 1.66-acres with 200 feet waterfront, $3,995,000-asking price in Moultonborough was sold on April 23, 2021 for three million dollars. Was maybe listed in November, 2020?

Does Hauser Estates Rd get snow plowed by the town?

Does it get town trash pick-up?

Is there town water and sewer service?

Is there internet/tv service available?

How long a drive to the Market Basket and Walmart in Pymouth, NH? ...... 25-miles and 41-minutes drive ......probably driving Rt 25-B in Center Harbor and Rt 175 in Holderness/Ashland to get to Plymouth.

One thing is for sure about MoultonboroUGH .......MoultonboroUGH is a looooong waaaaaay from everywhere ....... is why MoultonboroUGH is spelled with an UGH! You ever notice that there's no UGH in Tuftonboro or Wolfeboro ...... so, why is that!

Mortgage officer?
 

If I were paying cash for something, my broker might know, but I would have no reason to be in contact with a mortgage banker. If I'm using a HELOC for any purpose, I don't have to specify intended use when I open up the line of credit. When I bought a property this spring, I was (almost) able to do a wire transfer from Fidelity to the title company's escrow account. (The transaction was over the online limit, so I had to confirm with "the next representative" who happened to be in Dallas. 2 minutes. No mortgage officer would have any way of knowing about this transaction. He could get anecdotal, second hand information from a title company.
Leader Bank, only founded in 2002, lists three MA locations on their website and no reference to being licensed in other locales. That makes your young friend immeasurably impressive to be one of the top 50 in the country.

Look him up, Keith Hapenney. His resume is impressive.

You’re right about Moultonborough being far from everything, especially some parts. We looked at a few properties and ruled it out for some of the reasons you listed.

But as far as Water and Sewerage. I prefer a Well and Septic. Towns rip you off on that service. I have Septic in MA with a sewer line going right by. It would cost a fortune just for the permit, never mind the actual work. And once hooked up they double your water bill.

Newfound Economy?
 

IIRC, you bought lakefront on New Hampshire's most pristine large lake.

Why saddle oneself with rust stains, chemical shocking, Radon and arsenic content, when especially good water is available with minimal treatment? (If any).

I don't expect Town Sewerage to be available in our lifetimes, but they can't double your lakewater bill. (Though I expect they'll find a way). :rolleye2:

I grew up in a town that had no town sewer. Every house was on their own septic system. If they ran sewer by my house and offered a free hookup I would have said no. Pumping the tank every 5 years or so at a cost of about $200 was way cheaper.

In Gilford we have town sewer and I use water from the lake. The quarterly sewer bills are only in the $90 range. Free water and low sewer bills are a great deal.

You do not have a choice on sewer hook-up. It is at the discretion of the municipality under a waiver.

https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files...ents/web-1.pdf

Most communities will give you an initial hook up deal, special price and let you pay it over time interest free. I doubt they would force you to hook up unless your septic wasn't up to snuff, which would be on you to prove. So if you have an old system it would wise for you to hook up. I some cases it will make your property more valuable. If you only have a 2 bedroom septic system and you hook up to a sewer system now when you go to sell that restriction is lifted.
If you don't take the initial deal and you want to hook up at a later date then you're going to pay though the nose.

I’ve had Well water at 3 locations. Only issue at all 3 was iron which is easily removed. Just had a well put in an it’s great. Town water around here (not available where I’m at) is ok. Most town systems need some sort of “treatment”.

I have a gareden and lawn I water back in MA with a fairly good size water bill and most of it is not going down the drain. But sewer would double the bill. I think it would cost $10k or more just to be allowed to hook up. Price keeps going up. And then $10-20k to actually hook in. So it could cost $20-$40k and double my water bill. Vs $200 to pump every few years.

You are not required to hook up. Probably if building new or septic needed replacement yes. But they don’t force you to disconnect from a working septic. I doubt any town does that. But possibly in very problematic area they do.

The ''deal'' is usually based on the road to lay the pipes and the equipment to dig, etc is already there. If you do it later, you entail the entire cost.

If you read the attachment, you will find that we amended the statutes about thirty years ago, and further corrected about twenty-five years ago, to allow for the waiver.

A building with a ''new'' septic system would be waived if not in a critical environmental area. They would not be forced to hook-up until the waived system failed and needed replacement or major repair. At that time, the hook-up would cost about as much as the replacement/repair.

Exactly. I’m long past the good deal phase in MA.
If they allowed hook up for free and the town itself could hook in for a good price I might do it. Say if total was under $10k I probably would.
But the early “incentive” is now working against them.
My system was installed in the 70’s. It’s only my wife and I on a 3 bedroom system for the last 20 years.

Water treatment in this area is generally reverse osmosis with UV treatment. It is the most cost effective system with Laconia having the building and system built so that it could easily double or triple current output. The lake water is removed from Paugus and treated.

Our well systems generally put out iron (staining) and calcium (water spots)... hard water... but some location have organic matter and can experience soft water conditions that need to be resolved. Simple test kits exist for each.

We can get doses of arsenic or leaching of various distillate derivatives, but that is rather rare. Radon is generally only a situation with an artisan well, as the granite can embedded the water with it... but other than on the map (https://www.dhhs.nh.gov/dphs/radon/d...don-map-nh.pdf) would be rare... with odds increasing on whether the home is really tight (low air exchange) and has a basement/cellar or a crawl space.

It would be doubtful to be able to purchase a home in a low density area, not on a water body, that had the option of municipal water and sewer.

I'm on Waukewan, which is Meredith's drinking water. They have done studies on extending the sewer to my neighborhood. I doubt I will be around to see it but my 2 bedroom system is over 30 years old and even though it's working fine I would jump at the chance to hook up. The road in is a half mile dirt road so if they put sewer in they would most likely pave it also and then I would pave my driveway, a win/win.
The value would go up dramatically as I have 4 sleeping areas so now it becomes a 4 bedroom home.

A lot of it will depend on the sewage plants down the line.
Waukewan and Winona, along with smaller tributaries, are part of a watershed protection area... so they are very careful.

I would only use reverse osmosis as a last resort (something bad that can't be filtered out) there a quite a few negatives with it that I didn't want to deal with.

PH is great, Hardness is great and the Iron is all undissolved Iron (a lot easier to remove). I currently have a 1 micron sediment (removes most of the iron takes it from 3 ppm to about 0.3 ppm), Pentair Iron Filter (brings iron to 0 ppm good for 80K gallons), Pentair 0.5 Micro Carbon for the whole house (all 4.5" x 20" big mothers). And a Water Drop 0.01 Micron Carbon combo at the Kitchen sink for cooking and drinking.

Oh and I had to swap my anode in the hot water heater from a passive rod to an "active" one, otherwise hot water smelled like rotten eggs. Very common issue with well water.

In MA I have a 1 micron sediment filter for whole house and just the Water Drop 0.01 micro under the kitchen sink in MA on town water.

No Reverse Osmosis, No Softener and no UV needed.

Our last lake home was like that (tons of lake homes are) and I would jump at the chance to hook that up too and would raise it's value. It's part of the reason I sold it.

New lake house is not septic limited but is 0.4 miles in on a private dirt road. As much as I hate the dirt road at times, I would miss the campy / non residential feeling the dirt road gives.

Municipal water treatment.

Homeowners in general, to my knowledge, have never gone that far.
I think I have only ever sold one RO undercounter system for drinking water.

Then what did you mean by "Water treatment in this area is generally reverse osmosis with UV treatment"

And who/what are you responding to with "Homeowners in general, to my knowledge, have never gone that far"?

We have RO in both homes--it is excellent. But I am not surprised you have sold only one. RO is very expensive compared to other filters (but very cheap compared to Poland Springs!)

I should have stated that municipal water treatment is generally RO with UV.
Many people that are ''political'' seem to think that our local municipalities use the old tech of the places they come from.

And the second would be you... homeowners general do not go that route.

When people state direct from the lake is best, they don't realize that the municipalities draw from the lakes and then ''treat'' the water even further removing impurities. Municipal systems also have very stringent testing protocols, while as a well user... mine has only been tested three times in the last 24 years.

Patrician Shores Featured...Boat-Size Restricted...
 

LaDaSun article regarding inventory-history and prices among older shorefront communities--examples at Patrician Shores:
https://www.laconiadailysun.com/real...f29784ad5.html

I note boat size is limited to a reasonable (for Lake Winnipesaukee) 24-feet. :coolsm:

Most of what Frank Roche writes feels like an advertisement.