Now, now SS, Less did invent that GW line he's been repeating lately.:D

...in today's newspaper!
 

Hot off the presses from this morning's Laconia Daily Sun, it's another gigundic, block-buster, earth-shattering, Lakes Region totally-relevant story. And no, you probably wouldn't be reading a story like this in one of the other papers. If it were not for the LaDaSun, all these local Lakes Region issues would just all go unnoticed. Three cheers for the Laconia Daily News....hip-hip hurray....hip-hip hurray, and one more time here.... a great big hip-hip hurray.....(get the message)!!!
...................................

Petition aimed at Ames Farm called 'spite zoning'

Gilford Planning Board will decide on Jan. 7 whether to recommend change along Rte. 11 to voters

By Adam Drapcho
The Laconia Daily Sun

GILFORD - The Planning Board held a public hearing Monday night on a petition-driven zoning amendment that asks voters to re-zone a section of the town's Resort Commercal district to Single Family Residential. They heard two sides of the story, but put off picking which side they believe to be right until their January 7 meeting.

The chunk of land in question is a 2,000- foot wide band that runs along the Southwest side of Rte 11, from the intersection of Highland Drive to the Alton town line. It entails about 335 acres, and the Ames family owns about 80 acres within the affected area. The land is directly across Rte 11 from the now controversial Ames Farm Inn.

Because the amendment to the zoning ordinance was brought forward by a petition, the Planning Board is only deciding whether to recommend the amendment or to not recommend it; the board cannot change one word of the amendment before it goes to the voters. As Planning Director John Ayer told the board. " It'll be on the warrant either way."

Riley Road resident Steve Nix spoke in favor of the zoning amendment. "A majority of this area is already built as residential homes," he said. He counted about 70 residential units in the area, and currently there hasn't been much if any commercial developement there. Any existing commercial operations would be "grandfathered" and allowed to continue, Planning Board members stated.

By re-zoning the area to single family residential, Nix stated, it would prevent the scenario wherein an unsightly commercial operation, such as a boat storage faciliy, could be built in the middle of a residential neighborhood. "It makes no sense from a planning standpoint...What has happened on the ground is not what it is zoned for."

Highland Drive was chosen as the Northwestern border of the rezoned area, Nix said, because commercial developement exists beyond that.

Rod Dyer, an attorney representing Ames Farm Inn, said the petitioned amendment is motivated for all the wrong reasons, and is an attempt by the neighbors of Ames Farm Inn to take out some of their frustrations relating to perceptions of improper busness practices. Ames Farm Inn is currently being sued by the town for expanding the operation's use of the land beyond what was described in a site plan review dating back to the 1980s. "Let's be frank," Dyer said, "this petition wouldn't be in front of you if we hadn't had the brew-ha-ha with Ames Farm that is currently before the Planning Board."

Dyer quoted a portion of the town's Master Plan that states that the town should encourage economic developement and the services that make Gilford a friendly place for visitors. He said the re-zoning would be a "Trojan Horse" that would, by removing commercial zoning and replacing it with residential, ensure the future of Gilford as a "bedroom community."

Furthermore, Dyer said that "spot zoning" - rezoning exercises that entail small, specific parts of town - is generally suspect. Due to the association with ill feelings of some in town towards Ames Farm Inn, Dyer said it isn't even "spot zoning' but "spite zoning."

"It simply would be inappropriate for this matter to go forward wih the recommendations of the Planning Board," Dyer said. He added that he would request "findings of fact" from the board if they did recommend the amendment.

Board members were conflicted over this issue. As member John Morgenstern put it, "These people built houses, they knew they were in the Resort Commercial zone, now they want us to change it. I have a problem with that. On the other hand, I live in this zone, and I would like to see it all residential because it is residential."

Chairman Polly Sanfacon said "I am really on the fence with this myself. It's a lot to digest. I want some time to think about this."

Adam Drapcho
Laconia Daily Sun, December 19, 2007

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
What's interesting to me is that
Gilford uses the SB-2 style of voting on town issues so when it comes to the town deciding how it feels about a zoning change, it has a warrant vote. Voters get to read and decide in the privacy of a voting booth with a paper 'warrant explanation' right alongside their choice of a yes or a no vote. Polls typically are open from 7am -7pm.

Meredith uses the Town Meeting style of voting on a zoning change issue. In the open town meeting room, people get to express their opinions about the proposal, and afterwards a public vote is held with a show of hands. In the case of very close votes, a hand count is taken.

And the difference between an SB-2 poll and a Town Meeting poll can result in a very different vote result ...............how about that?....................hey remember the voice of Howard Cosell.,,,,...huh?

Is this legal?
 

I'm not sure of all the legalities but I thought it was considered a no-no to make zoning changes while development proposals were on the table for an area. The whole idea of zoning is to establish a set of rules to work within. A business can buy land and know it can develop it for the zoned use. If a town could willy-nilly change the zoning it would be unfair to the people who invested in the business in good faith. Is Ames Farms planning development?

We are having the same kinds of discussions in Hudson, NH where a large development is planned and neighbors want to change zoning to block it. As I understand it, zoning changes are not allowed to stop a specific development that is under consideration.

JeffK is correct. Once a formal application has been submitted to the local planning or zoning board it comes under the regulations in place at that time.

If however a development is still just under pre-application discussion then a change to regulations can be made. Once new site plan or zoning changes are formally posted those changes are immediately in effect and remain so until the actual vote by townspeople. Unless voted down the regs then continue in effect.

NHskier

Another Public Hearing Scheduled......

AMES FARM UPDATE

I wonder why an application to allow single family residential was voted down?

It seems to me that those who voted it down are, with few exceptions, themselves living in homes on lots zoned single family residential (just an assumption).

While I can certainly understand the abutters / locals objecting to expansion of the current commercial use to include, e.g., a marina, the rationale to oppose conversion to single family residential is less clear.

If voted down, would that mean Ames must continue the current use, even if he's tired of it and wants out?

Would the only viable option for him be to sell out, with the understanding that the new buyer has to continue the current use (cabins, restaurant, boat launch) without change?

It just seems pretty harsh.

What am I missing here?:confused:

Don is not the only owner
 

One thing you're missing is the other owners whose opinions must be considered. Don's mother is still alive, he has a daughter, he has a grandchild(ren), he has two brothers, he has a niece who has a child, and he may have distant cousins who are still minor owners (not sure of the status on the last one).

I know his niece Peggy wants the Farm to maintain its current character and wants her child to be able to enjoy the experience of the place. She was very gracious in her request to the townspeople that they not vote for a change in zoning...perhaps that had an influence.

From the Citizen
CLICK HERE for COMPLETE ARTICLE

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...farmaerial.jpg

Noise pollution
 

Remember hearing about this back in the 70's and 80's a lot ..even got a decibel limit on the lake.
What is it people don't understand about why and how excessive noise is unfair.
When you hit the gas at 7 am you are imposing your will to go fishing :rolleye2: on hundreds maybe thousands of people within earshot.
I dont know many people that enjoy lots of noise or like to be woken up early.. do you ?
Anyone that would question why others would want the lake to be the quiet peaceful place it normally is.. have never been here when it is.

From the Gilford Steamer

Dick,

You forget that a growing percentage of lake front property owners own the water. Any use of their lake that does not conform to their useage is not in the public interest and must be stopped at once.

Condo Developers
 

How about when the developer of Samoset condominiums filled in a dry river bed on the south side of the property to build more condos. One spring, there was so much water running off from from Belknap/Gunstock Mtn that it washed away some of the Samoset properties and the abutters as well. What a mess! My father warned the town but the town figured a dry riverbed is no big deal. To this day, I'd rather deal with a landowner than some high powered developer who will go out of his way to walk all over the neighbors and the town.

This reminds me of
 

two different stories:

Couple 1 buys a house near an airport, couple 2 buys a house next to a highway. Soon both couples are complaining about the noise the plains and cars make. HUH??????:confused:

Great analogy
 

Although one family I know has owned property near Ames Farm Marina since the 20's ! Should they sell and move away so they can have peace and quiet at the lake ? And the claims that shorefront owners are selfish is the pot calling the kettle black IMHO.

I never said shorefront owners are selfish. Diselusioned, maybe. Out of touch, possibly. As for the family owning their property since the 20's, how did they deal with the instalation of roads and the growing increase of auto traffic over the years? Did they move to have the roads near them closed or moved to a different location? If I bought a house in a location where mine was the only house for 200 yards in either direction then some years later someone built 100 yards from me, then some years later someone built 50 yards from me then 25 yards from me and I did not like that, YES I would move. I am the one unhappy, not the other people who moved into the neighborhood I live in. Who am I to impose my will on others?
Times change. The Lake is busier today then it was 10 years ago. It was busier 10 years ago then it was 20 years previous ect, ect. You all bought property on the BIGGEST lake in New Hampshire. You are shocked and upset that people actually use the lake for the purpose for which it was intended for ALL?

Is there a "quiet" ordanence in NH? If so what are the time constraints? Could a homeowner decide to mow his/her lawn at 7am, 8am and not be in violation of said law?

Apparently, the train whistle being blown at the Ames Farm station never bothered them - original family members.

Would that make them the kettle or the pot - current family members?

WOW... some people never cease to amaze me! You buy property next to a commercial business, then expect the business to change to suit you?

Whats the big deal over Ames Farm? So what if he lets the public launch boats there for a fee? So what if he hosts Fishing Tournaments? Thats like the people who move to Weirs then complain about Bike Week...

He has to pay some exorbitant taxes on that piece of property, and lets face it those small cottages arent going to cover his tax bill, never mind make him a small profit!

I think people need to be careful what they wish for... If I were the Ames family I would seriously consider selling out to a BIG developer for some big $$$! Then watch as the crabby neighbors spend all thier $$ battling a big development company with DEEP pockets...

Just think of how that are would look with 200 or so condos, a much bigger dock footprint.... all that lovely traffic and the noise that comes with all those people using thier motorcycles, boats & jetski's!

or better yet, go completely agri and go back to cows & pigs.... STINKY!

Woodsy

living next to a public park
 

A person who buys a house adjacent to a public park (grass) should not be surprised that the general public will actually use the park . . . sometimes at night and early in the morning. Some of the public will make noise. Sometimes the kids in the adjacent ballpark will hit a ball into this person's yard. Should the person hire a lawyer in an attempt to restrict the hours that the park can be open . . . or limit the kids' ball playing in some way?

What difference does it make if the public park is made up of grass or water? Winnipesaukee (like all lakes) is held in public trust by the state of NH. The person who buys a house adjacent to this water park should have known before he bought the house that it was located adjacent to a public park and the likelihood was high that the public would recreate on it in many different ways. If you like to fish, the chances are you will want to be on the water at sunrise because that is when the catching is best. Outboard motors make some noise. Didn't the guy who bought the house know this?

Look, the lake is not valuable because someone built a McManson on its' shoreline . . . the guy's house is valuable because of the lake . . . and the lake belongs to the all of the public . . . equally.

Don't complain if me and my buddies want to take off from Ames Farm (or anywhere else on the lake) and go bass fishing at 6:30 AM. You shouldn't be surprised. Nor should you complain when 4 or 5 boats get together in "your" cove.

There are pros and cons to living on a lake. Please be aware of both.

Dick and his friends
 

Dick,

When fisherman stop trolling where my children swim, I'll be a bit more tolerant. I don't care if anybody fishes...just stay away from swimming areas -- out of common courtesy. In the last four years we had two cases of discarded fishhooks stuck in the feet (in 3 to 5 feet of water within 20 feet of shore between where the boats are moored and the shoreline).

You're right -- the water is public. But common courtesy should be shown by all, whether you pay taxes to live there or you pay a launch fee to have access.

But don't complain to me if you and your buddies encounter a water balloon at 6:30 am after waking me up or if you're too close to where we are swimming. ;-)

GB

Let me start out by saying you are correct. Common courtesy is needed, when people are actually swimming. Home owners property ends at the waterline. If no one is on their dock, rafts, beach then fisherman have EVERY right to fish anywhere they want except for inside marked swim areas that are PERMITTED. Just because you put a line across the front of your property 50 yards from shore does not make it a legal swim area. Your swim area is a privlede, just like my ability to fish. Yours doesn't superceed mine and vise versa.
Bass, for the most part are a shallow water fish. They live on or near the shoreline. That is where fisherman have to target them. If I see a family using thier dock/beach I skip on by. If its 8am and you are in your house and I feel a fish may be in and around your beach, I'm fishing.
Think about this. What if every homeowner on a lake said "not in front of my house" ? There would be no place for anyone to fish.

Swim Buoys & Swim Lines
 

All swim areas should have swim buoys and swim lines . . . and for good reason . . . it makes it very apparent that that area is a swim area and for boaters to stay clear. Without these buoys and swim lines there is no way for boaters to know what is a swim area and what isn't.

Under no circustances should anglers troll inside swim buoys/lines.

About the water balloon thing . . . of course you are joking :)

So we all need to start stringing lines and floats out front because its obvious the bassers dont care about anyones privacy at all. I have nothing against fishing either but a bunch of overgrown kids flippin lures at the boats, dock and shoreline in front of houses is ignorant to say the least.. grow up :rolleye2:

Don't bet on it.

http://www.balloonbazooka.com/movies.html

(Defending the Dock)

Fishing
 

Yes, I'm joking. I don't launch them at fisherman.
My nephews have better aim.
:rolleye2:

I would think about your balloon gun if I were you. I know a few guys that carry paintball guns just for people who get pushy.:eek:

I consider the Ames family to be among the most effective preservationists on the lake. They manage to protect the hillside behind the cottages from development, while still providing easy access to the lake for boaters of all kinds who are not fortunate enough to own their own piece of paradise. The cottages represent one of the few (& becoming fewer) options for a traditional week at the lake for a family, unless one is lucky enough to be able to afford a "camp" of it's own. Many local & island kids get a chance for a great summer job experience that money can't buy, learning responsibility & good work habits from a family that's been successful for years & really know what they are about.

And Ames does all this preservation work without fund raising of any kind! They actually pay taxes! Go ask the LRCT folks how easy it is to preserve a ridge line - they worked their butts off for years to raise the money to preserve the "Castle in the Clouds" land, and now they work their butts off to keep it running.

I don't mean to suggest that the Ames family's intention is or is not to be preservationists, nor do I care. But I do care that when I look at the ridge line I don't see another Samoset. When a fisherman pulls a bass out from under my dock I feel a little guilty "owning" my bit of lakefront, knowing that no matter where he comes from, as long as his boat floats he has access to the lake I'm lucky enough to spend 100 days a year on.

Thanks for reading my rant!
Steve

Don't you need a permit to put in a swimline and markers? What privacy are we invading? How dare we pass by your property I guess? What's ignorant is assuming YOU OWN the water infront of your house. Your property ends at the waterline. Period. You have no rights to anything else. If anything a fisherman extends you a curtiousy by not fishing public waters adjacient to your property. Read your deed.
It has nothing to do with "growing up". It has to do with what the LAW is. You don't want to see fisherman pass by your property? Sell and buy in the mountians.

Privacy? The lake is owned by all of us, up to the high water mark.

Well... to an extent anyway! LOL!

Waterfront Property owners do have certain Littoral Rights granted to them that the general public does not. For example they can install docks, rafts, moorings and a swim line.

I think a little courtesy goes a long way. Fisherman do have the RIGHT to fish in front of houses etc... but that doesnt mean they have to be rude about it... If someone is out sitting on thier deck @ 6am with a cup of coffee... quietly move on to the next house.

if your a waterfront property owner, and you dont want guys fishing in front of your place, petiton the DES or whoever is required and put up a swim line. No need to get angry or twisted about it. You bought property next to a public park...

I think most everyone on the lake is nice, extremely courteous and helpful. Its always the one or two that arent that get everyone in an uproar!

Woodsy

Woodsy, I agree with you 100%. There are rights and laws...and there is common sense and courtesy.
I was just saying that the privacy thing is not a law or a right in this case.

We have a cottage on the lake and the fishing must be great in our area because there are lots of fishing boats just off our dock and in the cove. I'm glad they get to enjoy fishing right off our dock - and sometimes beside it. I'm glad we get to enjoy the lake also. I have never felt like our privacy was invaded or that they were doing something wrong.

The only time I got antsy was when we watched a mother bass have little ones right beside our dock. She patrolled her spot like there's no tomorrow. A fisherman came by one day and threw his hook in and we hoped mom kept her mouth shut. Unfortunately she didn't. She was caught and thrown back in. She nwas caught 2 other times we know of and thrown back in. Apparently bass don't learn to keep their mouth's shut.

Oops I meant "a little less guilty"
 

Oops, I meant "a little less guilty". Perhaps I should read the post first?

From the Gilford Steamer
 

Not All Neighbors Are Abutters

You keep reitorating that waterfront ownership ends at the high water mark.. Ive never said anything to the contrary.
Heres what im not ok with!
Taking all females off their beds every spring. Catch kill and release! Ive been to several weigh ins where MOST of the Largest bass were belly up!
Lures jigs and line all over the boat lines, canvas, dock and logs in the water.
Ive fished this lake since I was a kid in the 60's.. Bass fishing isnt what it used to be, wonder why :rolleye2:
If you ask me a bunch of overgrown kids have turned a relaxing hobby into an extreme sport to pump there egos.
If you want to fish right in front of my house thats fine , but dont expect to be welcomed with open arms. And keep your lures off private property !

1.Let me try and educate you on a couple things. Those bass you see sitting on beds are the MALES. The females lay their eggs quickly and leave. The male is left to guard the nest. Fishing for bass on nests is LEGAL and is done during a period of time when it is strictly catch and immediate release. No putting any fish in a livewell.

2. Bass caught in tournaments have about a 97% survival rate on average. Do some die? Yes, but in reality we are allowed to catch, kill and keep 5 bass per person per day. So at 97% that would mean 3 out of 100 bass will die compared to 100 out of 100 if we did what we are legally allowed to do. In the tournaments I have been in ( over 500 probably) someone is always wiling to take home the fish that don't make it and feed their family with them. The fact that we practice catch and release should tell you all you need to know about how much bass fishermen care about the fisheries they fish.

3. Bass fisherman are damed if they do and damed if they don't. When we do make an errant cast, do we go and attempt to retrieve the lure on what you clearly have indicated is PRIVATE PROPERTY? If we do try this we get grief. If we cut the line and leave the lure we get grief. What are we to do?
I have an idea, have all the land owners take out all docks, swim lines and boats. Then we will have nothing to snag our lures on;)

4. You fish your way , I'll fish mine. Last I checked we lived in a country that allows that.

5. I'll be sure to let you know I think you are #1 when you give me grief for doing what I am legally allowed to do.:D

But you're only allowed to do that on Webster Lake!

As a result of zoning board decision, it was concluded that Ames Farm was not legally grandfathered as a public boat launch and will not be an option for boats to use this summer.

Source... The LACONIA CITIZEN

Cannot say with any certainty but the closing of the Ames' Farm Inn, twenty dollar, launch ramps is probably one good reason why the numbers of boats out on the water appears to be diminished. Seems like maybe Ames had a good following of people dedicated to fishing including NH Fish & Game Dept and people really liked it and enjoyed the different Ames' amenities such as open space, big green grassy field, nearby parking for car & trailer, cabins, inn, pancake breakfasts and the whole Ames' 'Olde Hampshire' experience........boo-hoo.....now I'm missing Ames' and I never even used it or went in there?

I am confused as to how the loss of Ames Farm as a public boat launch will reduce pressure on Glendale????