jetskier,

Thanks.

Man, that unit must cost a few $$$$$$.

CZ

APS wrote:
Then shouldn't the MP or MP Auxiliary be running patrols along the perimeter of the search area (a 1/4 mile away) to ensure the safety of the divers (and that no one finds out what happens before the "official statement" if there is a statement)?

Recovered???
 

Has the boat been recovered? Headed out to Rattlesnake yesterday, at 11 AM or so, and there no activity at all. No dive boats, no MP, no Sea Tow...nothing. I thought the area was off the eastern part of the island, so we went there and circled around the back side, but saw nothing.
Anyone??????

Foiled again
 

Well there's one problem right off the bat. I think Cate Park is a no smoking zone.

Still Missing
 

They must have arrived just after you left. They were here until it started to get dark.
Today they got started before 9:00 am searching a very wide area. After ForumFest IV we stopped by and they still hadn't found the boat yet. There are lots of shelves and boulders giving false readings on the sonar.
Kudos to Diver1111 for his perseverance! We missed you at the Fest.
Perhaps we should get the West Alton Submarine to aid in the search!
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...6Submarine.jpg[

Cobalt
 

Still working the area intensely; Scanned from roughly 7am-7pm Tues, Wed, Fri, Sat; Need day off here and there; Extremely difficult due to depths and target area-at one point 168 feet; Long ledge walls creating challenge; DES joined us yesterday with drop camera on cable; Divers working hard using rebreather and mixed gas-visibility at 138 feet about 15 feet; MP not really needed it seems as folks keep their distance most of the time; Still no sign of fuel anywhere; Grueling but interesting.

Diver, out of curiosity how big is the search area? And you definately need and deserve a day off don't burn yourself out.....

Diver,

Do you mind is I ask this? But are you getting paid to do this? And by whom, the insurance carrier? Do you get a salvage fee?

CZ

Fanning the flamnes of speculation
 

I really don't want to spend time on speculation about any of this but this morning I heard one possible I will in fact post for your consideration. A man whose opinion I respect suggested that the reason this boat sank could well have been due to the coolant hose for system cooling coming off. A boat like this might pump 30 gallons per minute through the cooling system and if the hose remained close to its' connection point it's also possible an over-heated engine might not be noticed. That's alot of water in-fast.

As to compensation, I started this as a volunteer and continue on that basis at this time. Business has been slow so it's a good time to work this.

When do they call it a search and leave it?

Probably when the blame game ends... I doubt anyone is dying to write this check!! (insurance, Cobalt, dealer, owner...)

Good one, Samiam- If it's priced like it sunk I might be interested. :laugh:


I will say in defense of Cobalt, in the reasearch I've done they are not only very highly regarded as to thier quality of construction, they also visually appear to be very well made. My only gripe with them is finding one without a Volvo stern drive and they are pricey.

Glad to hear everyone was OK. That's pretty darn scary.

Daily Fines
 

Snowmobile Gas Capacity
 

RG - I don't know how much gas a typical jetski carries, but our snowmobiles have a gasoline capacity of a little over 10 gallons each.

Write your legislators
 

For those of us that CAN'T vote, you who can should voice your concern as to enforcing all existing laws regarding laws that may have been broken as well as reponsible parties laws. As well as compensation that the State, County, and Town are forthcoming to them, due to the costs that have been incurred. (MP patrols around dive site). Apologies to the registered owners of this vessel, but we must have complete responsibility taken care of before we, the unheard from are asked to PAY MORE in taxes. Who is going to pay for this search? Sorry, No smilie faces.

Where the dollars actually come from....
 

The bulk of the search and cursory maintenance of security around the site has been handled by the New Hampshire Narine Patrol. Thus, no property tax revenue has been expended by this agency as it receives no funding from local property tax payers, as has already been discussed in previous posts about this agency's funding. The costs incurred by this agency have already been funded by the State's 07 operating budget, therefore this search will result in no new fees or registration increases.

The initial response by locally based emergency personnel was already paid for in the local community's 07 town budget, therefore there will be no increase in the property tax for the response, just as if they responded to a car accident or fire at your summer home.

If and when the vessel is salvaged and depending on the circumstances that contributed to the sinking, circumstances that are becoming painfully obvious none of us are privy to, then a determination will be made to if and how much responsibility the vessel's owners & insurance company may have.

Thank God the good people of New Hampshire provide, as a community resource, rescue & recovery services regardless of one's abiity to pay. I shudder to think of the untold tragedy that could occur if one had to calculate their potential financial liability before they dialed 911 to summon an ambulace, police officer or fire truck.

Yes, there are the handful of those who abuse the State's good will on occasion, and there is State law that allows the State to recover damages in those extreme cases. In this case however, it appears the only negligence to date is in the opinion of some folks attempting to assign culpability without a single shred of evidence! :(

Add that weight of water to this excerpt from the original Eagle-Tribune's article:

Submit a bill anyway. The insurance company will be especially happy to pay you if this boat is found.

If the Cobalt is determined to be sound, the claimant has less claim to a 100% replacement. If not sound, then the carrier can recover some of its loss from Cobalt.

Even if it's not found this year, a civil lawsuit may provide the incentive by the insurance company to renew the search at a later time. (Adding-in the insurance interests of defendants Cobalt, the dealership, the engine manufacturer, the hose manufacturer and the hoseclamp manufacturer :rolleye1: )

Also, my reading of automotive claims has been that the insurance company will pay a large fraction of the new boat's cost, but not replace the boat anywhere-near 100%. The threat of a lawsuit may be sufficient to negotiate the 100%, however.

IMHO.

My snowmobile holds just over 10 gallons, and my jet ski holds right around 15 gallons. Both have oil tanks that hold under a gallon of oil.

What laws may have been broken here??? What are you talking about? A boat sank for reasons unknown and luckily the the occupants were safe. Had this happened a bit later in the season when water temps are lower this could have been tragic.

Being a waterfront owner I am happy to hear much effort (and a lot of volunteer hours as well) is being put into locating and raising the boat. Leaving hazardous materials at the bottom of the lake does not thrill me.

Usually as part of your marine insurance policy they would cover the search and raising of the vessel up to a certain point. Even if they had hit something which does not sound to be the issue the collision coverage would cover that.

I seem to recall that the owners will be fined per day if they don't make an honest attempt to recover the hazardous waste from the water way. It is a per day fine the state can levy,I think everything that can be done IS being done

Fines
 

RG, I believe it is $1000 per 24 hours. If the owners call it in to a "professional" recovery company, they don't pay the fine from the time they make the call. But they have to pay for the recovery.

Perfectly stated, as usual!

Kudos
 

You deserve very large Kudos for spending your time and gas on this enterprise. Nice to see that there are people like you here at the lake.

I have a Cobalt and have had no issues with it (knock on wood). However, I have found that with other toys, such as my snowmobile, it is not uncommon for hoses to be left off or not tightened by the dealer. Of course, this could also be a manufacturer defect.
I think that the poor owners are going to be caught in the middle until the boat is salvaged. I hope that they have insurance and that they can replace the boat. I don't think that I would want to try to recondition the boat, if I were them.

Ok Ok Ok
 

I respect all of your opinions, save one, and Skip thank you for the facts concerning funding. Night Wing, go fly some somewhere else. Name calling isn't going to earn you any respect. This subject is too sensitive with the fact that a boat sank, no one knows why, and everyone is tip toeing around the issue and saying thank god no one was hurt, due to an insensitive comment made early on.

Excuse me, I did not call you any names. I posted the definition of paranoid because you were so worried that YOU might have to pay for the search in the form of some tax or fee. Better check behind the closet door and under the bed.

Can A Big Wave Really Sink A Boat That Easlily?
 

Quote: The Eagle Tribune - September 02, 2007 12:00 am

“James Larsen's Cobalt Bowrider took on a big wave around 11:25 a.m., Marine Patrol Lt. Tim Dunleavy said. The eight people aboard donned their life jackets and jumped into the lake as the boat quickly filled with water and started to sink, Dunleavy said.”

We’ve had really big waves crash over our bow on big chop days and the water empties into the drain hole without a problem, of course we do get mighty wet. Were we really in jeopardy of sinking and just oblivious to the danger?

I sure hope the search for the boat will result in finding this elusive bugger. Best of luck to Diver1111 and the recovery crew, we’re rooting for you!

The problem with taking a wave over the bow on a boat like the 246 is that the water goes right into either the bow cockpit or the main cockpit. Now the boat is suddenly not only heavier but it has an unpredictable load balance since the water can slosh all over the place. If there's, say, 50 gallons of water added to the boat all of a sudden, that's 425 lbs of added weight that can suddenly roll from the main cockpit into the bow cockpit when the bow goes down on the next wave. That can easily cause the bow to stuff into the next wave and take on another 50 gallons or more of water. Now there's 850 pounds of water rolling around, imagine how tough it's gonna be to get the boat to ride up and over the next wave... The 246 is an awesome boat but it has low freeboard and a very pronounced downturn at the bow. That can't help. Look at the models that have replaced the 246 in Cobalt's line, they all have less droopy looking bows and lots more freeboard...

In rough water, a bowrider skipper would be wise to ensure that the bow canvas remains on. Wonder if that was the case here?

How about....
 

Is it possible that, based on everything we have read here, that what occured is this: The boat was fine until it got into a chop in the broads, at that point the coolant hose worked itself loosed (as it may not have been properly attached...I recall the poster who wrote about the "belt recall" on certain Cobalts, and he mentioned that the coolant hose had to be removed to get at the belt). So the boat was taking on water, without anyone knowing it, as they were under power. The captain realized there was a problem, and stopped. At that point (remembering the lake was "rough" that day) the stern was much too heavy, and as a result, sitting very low. A swell came over the stern, and that was the end. With all the resulting weight it was quickly submerged...and see ya later bye....
Have I missed something?

It seams to me you would need a lot more than 400lbs of water to upset the balance of that boat. I suspect like the above post there was significant water in the hull making the boat ride low. When stopping all the water rushes forward and the nose dives into the waves. Once the waves start coming over the bow repeatedly your done....
I am anxiously awaiting the facts on this one!!!

My point was that if it stuffed a wave and took on 425 lbs of water without any extra weight on board, it's even more likley to take on water on the nextr wave with the extra weight on board. 50 gallons sounds like a lot but it actually takes up very little space (6.68 cubic feet, or one third of the capacity of a typical fridge) and could easily come over the bow. What if it took on 100 gallons on the first stuff?

I'm eager to discover the facts too.

In a self-bailing boat, the deck is above the waterline and scuppers allow water to escape the boat. So a big wave over the bow will somewhat quickly leave the boat. Many bow riders are not self bailing, a big wave will slosh around as Dave R describes, eventually running into the bilge, where the bilge pump will pump it overboard. This takes time, during that time you may get another wave. Eventually you may not be able to keep up.

I've been out on the broads in big water in a bowrider, it is not fun. Keeping the canvas cover may help. The best approach is to avoid taking a wave over the bow. That means working very hard at the helm or staying home.

I post without any knowledge of the actual accident and do not suggest that this post relates to the actual events.

Interesting thread...
 

...that started because a boat sank, but became truly interesting to read and observe with the multitude of reactions, wild speculation, accusations, finger pointing, facts, defenses, apologies, desire to sue, desire to just help without need of compensation, application of fines, concern over taxes, perceived personal attacks, some rational discussion and if we can somehow work in the sex of the operator we'll have just about covered it all! :)

However, what I find most interesting is that a 24 foot boat can be so hard to find. I would have previously assumed that with a rough idea of where it went down, a few divers, a few days and some technology like side scan sonar, it's an easy find. Maybe I've been watching too much CSI. Maybe this is also a nice reminder of just how big the lake can really be.

An object (boat) may not go straight to the bottom. The hull could "plane" under water and carry the boat quite a distance. Good luck to those looking for it, tha'ts a BIG lake

Are we to really believe this article?

If so, why are they still looking for this boat?

Should someone tell the newspaper or the searchers the real deal on the boats location?

Just some elaboration
 

The problem I see it is that a 24' boat in the scheme of the lake is pretty small. And then add in as Pirkaus so accurately mentions the boat probably didn't fall like a brick. Even with the Sonar I would think it is quite like finding a needle in a hay stack. Remember by the time the divers get down to depth there visibility isn't that great. I believe earlier in the thread Diver gave some numbers on the visibility the divers had.... Then add in the limited time in the day....and the time a Diver can stay down..... I am sure they are all doing the best they can, it just takes time.....

Two things that have come up and I don't think have been answered unless I missed the answers....are when does the search get called off.... and just how big is the search area?

Also something to consider is at what point does the cost of the search out weigh the amount of money in dispute? I am guessing that the cost of this boat was roughly $40-45,000??? The important point is that everyone survived and is well. Thankfully, there was traffic on the lake and the water was warm.

Some observations on search
 

We have watched Diver1111 search and it seems to us to be about 1/3 of a mile x 1/3 of a mile area where they spend most of the time.
This calculates to about 70 acres.
With a 15 foot visibility this would require 4500
circles to cover all of that lake floor.

If our lot is any indication of what the underwater edge of the island is like, the boat probably slid for a while down a rough surface from this extinct volcano. We assume the boat had some buoyancy even after filling with water.

Our hat is off to diver1111 with the effort he is putting in. It must be difficult to think you have found the target so many times only to be disappointed.

I really hope they find it soon to put all the theories to rest for once. No offense to anyone but this topic is getting stale.

On a funnier note, I have friend who was recently inspected by the coast guard here on the Delaware River. He failed the test because of pfd's that were the wrong size and fit for his kids. The coast guard would not allow him to continue under his own power and towed him to a marina to buy the right size pfd's before letting him go...with a warning.

Fyi
 

Your post of the word and its defintion indicated that you have diagnosed me as paranoid. Gee, I didn't see an M.D. appended to your name. You have assigned a label to me without proper qualifications and degrees. Hence, you have participated in name calling. In some arenas it could be called libel. Try calling me paranoid at the next forumfest and I don't have to be a lawyer to sue for this. Your latest post hasn't used a cut and paste approach to reponding to my post. Congratulations, your doing better, you actually had to think to resond. But, if the cut and paste approach is what you like then get the following:

The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc (CD), DVD, blogging and the like, then it is considered libel.

Gee wiz Nightwing, since my identity is known to many people on this forum I guess you have already libeled me. Wanna think again about what you post?:laugh: