Umm, I give up, what?

Ohmigosh! Not Biggus!

Quickly, I rushed to click on the link provided (I have been wanting to see the new drives), only to see this:


Dear website visitor:
We have temporarily removed the boat noise videos from our website so as to more clearly emphasize LRSLA's broad mission.


This was less than an hour after the link to these videos of alleged 'disruptive boater' activity was posted.

Too bad. I did want to see the Konrads.

It is possible that the server was not able to handle all the requests (from people who wanted to see the new outdrives :) ), so the webmaster disabled it until they could get set up for more bandwidth. I imagine that won't take long, as I hear that this particular website is very well funded by a private individual.

Or perhaps the webmaster was threatened with some sort of legal action, as this type of behavior (posting videos of people you don't like) seems to border on harassment/stalking if you ask me.

BTW, Biggus was the first person in this area to test a special new, high-performace outdrive from Konrad Marine. The Mercury TRS outdrives have a well-known tendency to self destruct under high loads. In addition to being stronger, the Konrad outdrives have less drag, resulting in lower fuel consumption. Since broken outdrives contribute to the waste stream, not to mention the possibility of a damaged outdrive leaking oil into our lakes, we should applaud Biggus (and Konrad) for making the significant financial investment in a better quality, environmentally friendly product.

www.konradmarine.com


Rob

Biggus, can you post a photo for us to see your big bad boat?

Reply to Rob
 

Rob have to agree with you, I tried the same thing, its almost as though someone thou stickest there footus in their mouthus............? hmmm, kinda interesting.

Don't take MY word for it...Google the "performance" sites.
 

"(from people who wanted to see the new outdrives,")," huh? R-i-g-h-t.

The cost of the bandwidth is the problem. The video was disabled even before I posted the URL. (I didn't state you could view it, just that Biggus was featured.)

Thousands of Big Boaters, including Biggus, Cal, (and maybe Rob and Will - naaah - not Will) from all over the country know why the video is disabled. "The call" went out to overload the server, driving up the cost for Sebago's www.lrslr.com from the Big Boat sites, (www.fastboat.com, www.vdrive.com, etc) hence, no video at www.lrslr.com today.

Remember the "Accident on the Broads" thread? Five thousand, six hundred (5,600) views, from guess who? Not "us-folks", I'm sorry to say.

Google other "performance" sites yourself. Caution! Some sites are definitely not family-friendly, :eek: and promote risk-taking behavior in boating and um... other things never viewed at www.winnipesaukee.com.

Big Boaters don't just want to disturb lake residents with their "thunder" (what we hear as noise), they perceive their power to extend to nearly everything else.

You wouldn't believe what's going on their sites. They defend the choice of drinking vodka while boating (over Gatorade, water), and defend the carrying of firearms on board as one of their boating rights. See "Lake Lice" and "Speed Bumps" (and other terms for lesser boats) in print!

Pressure on government agencies, intimidation of Marine Patrols and "tracking down" persons who want to restrict their "fun" appears also. When one of their own collides with a lesser boat, their concern is their Insurance!

They've even ripped our own Webmaster!

"From people who wanted to see the new outdrives," huh? R-i-g-h-t.

Unless they're just "talking the talk", It's a virtual Marine Mafia out there!

I kid you not.

We've Been Caught
 

Ok guys I guess its time to give it up, T. we have been caught. Mad found out about our "Marine Mafia" lol E. Hopefully he hasn't found out about our monthly secret meetings in N. the back room of tonys pizza. But yes mad it is true, we are a mafia, we even T support the sale of a drug called gasoline. Well boys it was nice while it lasted but ya cant outsmart some of the people among us. Oh well.


Water Cooled
Willy

OUCH.....Excuse ME
Did I see my name?? First off you don't know my boat....see my avatar? Can't hear it , can you? Because it's quiet and can pass any noise test anywhere.
Secondly and even more importantly all the boating sites I visit DO NOT promote drinking any alcohol. Far from it. Any organized events (charitable fund raisers and such) strickly prohibit alcohol.
Thirdly...Yes we do carry firearms. They are required by law. They're called Flare guns
And while you're talking about Lake Lice and Speedbumps lets not forget about Snailboaters. We don't spend late hours planning out attacks on these people as you would have it sound :rolleye1:
So bash all you like...just keep the facts straight , please.
In a few weeks it will all be a moot point since boating will pretty much be done for the season.
Next you have those nice 2 cycle , smokey , noise making sleds to contend with.
Maybe we should all give up out finely tuned , clean running 4 cycle performance boats for 2 cycle outboards :confused: perhaps that would help :laugh: :laugh:

Firearms?
 

Cal, just to set the record straight, I am 99.9% sure that flare guns on NH inland waters are not required by law. You may be confusing that with a Coast Guard requirement on ocean waters. Although I do carry them on the lake & its a good idea.

They are a USCG requirement. I'm not sure about inland waters , but they surely aren't illegal.
Just like the NH law requires a bell for 26' or 27' and greater. I had a "safety check" by the coasties 3 years ago shortly after 911 and threw them a curve when I pulled out my bell. They weren't sure what to make of it , but I pointed out they are a requirement in some states ;)

Was someone just hyperventilating? :laugh:

The Marine Mafia has been around since the beginning of time. You've never heard about them? Did you know that Tony Soprano is an active member? I believe a descendant of the Corleone's are part of it as well.

They've been on a Powerquest for years...it's not a Donzi or a Ponzi scheme nor an illegal Cigarette operation. They spend their time in the Outerlimits of the Baja frollicking in Fountains and enjoying the Sunsation. They're always engaged in Formula's to have an Awesome time. Some play chess and once in a while get a Checkmate, while others are Hustlers and enjoy a good Powerplay. Some appear as Spectres while others are Nordics. I've even seen a few Warlocks wield a nasty Excalibur that's used to slay Dragons, Cougars, and Scarabs. I've seen Black Thunder and Active Thunder and the Sonic boom from both is immense. Their Velocity is faster than most Skaters, yet not as fast as a Chief or an Apache riding a Thoroughbred. If you think I'm being Extreme, you should reread your post....sit back, take a deep breath....and enjoy a Magnum of your favorite vintage.

The sky is not falling.

The internet is so enormous and there are so many powerboaters with different interests and opinions...you can be sure to find some unsavory comments or posts that can be used to promote your propaganda. Heck, you'd not believe the picture I saw of two people on a sailboat the other day....definitely not family friendly material....I've been scarred for life. I'll never look at a sailboater the same way ever again. :eek:

throttleman
 

Throttleman, awesome post, that borders on the line of thoreau. lol. Keep up the good work

Pop Quiz time for Cal
 

I'll ease up on you, Cal, since you're generally a good sport. (Just misguided as to noise by people's homes located on protected inland waters).

Here's two quotes from my Virtual Marine Mafia archives:

1)"While I'm not into appeasement, and enjoy antagonizing the intentionally stupid, let's let the local [Big Boaters] decide if we should take over [Winnipesaukee] for a weekend."

2) "I never did get a noise test , but returned later with Corsa Captains Call and kept it closed and followed all the rules religiously as not to be stopped and never had a problem."

Cal scores a 100
 

This one as " I Remember" :D

Now since you know so much , fill in the banks if you can :confused:

I owned that boat from ____ to ____. My present(quiet) one has been owned from ____ to the present.

Getting late and time to go home for the night :yawn:

That cigarrette is a smokin' ride Biggus! SS

Wow
 

Great looking boat Biggus, congrats!

Mad, could be out there too
 

:banana: "Mad, for just 169,900 you too could be slicing through the waves in your very own 38' Fountain Lightning. Bright red too just like biggus. Just imagine you come out of the house with your sleek sunglasses on and fire up the twin 525SC Mercruiser Motors, each cranking out an earth shattering roar as you cast off the lines and head off into the sunset over the broads. You race to the weirs as all the women line the shore and cheer your name, for you are their daddy. The possibilites are endless, I mean im not saying that the wow factor of a catamaran isnt there but, ya know just think of the possibilities.

Water Cooled
Willy :cheers:

Now I think I know where you got your screen name. Up until now, all I could think of was a character in Monty Python's "Life of Brian." ;)

A word or two from LRSLA
 

Just thought you might want to hear the truth of this matter.

The LRSLA videos are still on the server at a private url.
We made the decision to take them private so that we could
fight certain boaters attempts to spread rumors and lies about
our activity. Our board felt that our Quiet Lakes activity was
overshadowing the other great Boating Safety work we were
doing.

As for the accusation that we pulled the videos due to bandwidth costs.
Were as we did see a large increase in the bandwidth usage on our server
it was still very minimal compared to the amount of bandwidth we are alloted.

Just as in New Hampshire, Southern Maine is experiencing a substantial
increase in boating activity. Offshore type boats are only one of the new
impacts being placed upon our surface waters. LRSLA is working to address the great need for boater education and safety awareness in our region.

As for our noisy boat issue, Maine's Boating Noise Regulations are now being enforced. The boats cited this season were operating illegally. LRSLA not only purchased sound meters this season for The State Warden's, we also sponsored training for the Wardens in noise enforcement. Our state warden's are highly professional and are committed to enforcement of Boating regulation.

Finally, LRSLA acquired 28 sound traces this season of boats that were in violation of Maine's noise regulation. Every boat was a high performance boat and every trace was at least 200% above the legal noise level.
Maine's noise regulations are 75db operational at 50feet and 95db stationary. Fines are $300>$500 per incident. Boats must be measured
with and with out cutouts in place. LRSLA will be petitioning the
legislature for an increase in the fines for next season and noise enforcement activity will increase on Long Lake and be initiated on Sebago
Lake also next season. There have not been any operational tests performed in the region to date. LRSLA is working to see that operational
testing begins next season. Boaters that failed the noise testing failed
stationary tests.

99% of the residents and boaters of the region are supportive of these efforts. LRSLA made many attempts to warn High performance boaters that enforcement was going to ramp up this year. Actually enforcement has been increasing for the last three years.

Noise violators in the region seemed to just blow off the whole issue
crying foul with out every attempting to understand the impact they were
having on the region.

Long Lake is not like Winni. LL is 12 miles long but it is only a mile wide at
it's widest point. With hills on all sides the lake forms a perfect amphitheater. Noise travels very efficiently in this environment.
Long Lake nor Brandy Pond are lakes that can handle extreme noise
levels without suffering great impact.

Yet the violators did not make any attempt to understand the impact.


Civilized society is not about doing any thing you please. Living in a community is about being a good neighbor.

LRSLA has recently formalized a very close relationship with Sebago's SWSW. The two organization are preparing to work together in support of Safe Boating and Quiet Lakes in the Lakes Region of Southern Maine.

Looks like it's falling in Maine! :)

As a fellow waterfront property owner, I'll be glad to see the LRSLA devote some energy to safe boating.

The safety issues are really a big problem over here.

....by the way, I just installed a new muffling system that utilizes the latest methods in sound-cancellation technology for performance boats.

Please do not think I do not care about offending folks. When I should be saving my acorns for the winter, I just dropped a bundle on mufflers for my boat.

Sounds familiar!

What a wonderful, informative post. Boat noise is a growing problem that many other lakes recognize and are dealing with. Not here I guess. Is there any group like the LRSLA and Quiet Lakes here on Winni? Sign me up.

Thanks Biggus :). If more "offshore" owners were like you there wouldn't be a problem!

No Problem?
 

Jan says there would not be a problem if more offshore boat owners were like Biggus (I am assuming she is speaking of Biggus muffling his boat). However, there are many posters, & others who feel (I am not one of them & I do not own an offshore performance boat) that there are other problems with these boats, not just the noise. If every offshore performance boat owner eliminated the noise issue from the equation, in the eyes of many they still would be a problem.

Are we done now??
 

Hey Biggus, wasn't this fun?? Over 2300 views and 64 posts on your question!

Blue Thunder :coolsm:

Biggus are you a homeowner as well here on the lake? I think that MP is doing a few things to enforce sound from performance boats on the lake. Our dear friends have a neighbor in their cove with a loud performance boat and heard from their local marina that MP "suggested" he switch to something less noisy. Well I don't know speicifics, if he was just tired of getting tickets from MP or they were going to do some legal action againts him..he put in a quieter system at the beginning of this summer. Imagine the complaints against this guy for MP to go to those extremes.

My two cents
 

You’re absolutely right Propeller. The issue isn’t just about noise, but the manner in which the craft is navigated.
Last Sunday, early evening, one of “those” boats came within 10 feet of us as we were heading into Alton Bay. We were just passing marker #22 (the Little Mark Island marker) somewhat close, when some fool blew by us. We were completely surprised and shocked. It was like he/she came out of nowhere. Roared by us faster than I can even take a guess on. It sped away so quickly we could not even tell the brand. I shudder to think what would have happened if we changed our straight course and veered right past the marker just a bit. I realize that all of these boat owners do not act this way. Everyone out on the lake should follow the rules to be safe. These bigger boats can go a lot faster than the smaller ones, which can be a bit unnerving at times. It could have easily been a smaller boat in the same situation. If the person I am referring to is a member of our forum and is reading this, smarten up. I love my life and do not want it cut short or altered in anyway because of some idiot being reckless. :fire:
I’m not saying that I don’t appreciate the larger boats. I’m an equal opportunity enjoyer. There is a time and a place for everything. It can be thrilling to see boats go zooming by. Safely, that is. I would even go so far as to say that I would love to see an official race on the lake. What seats Rattlesnake Islanders would have! :laugh:
One of my favorite “big boat” memories this summer was when we were out in the middle of the Broads floating. Two tunnel hulls, one was an impressive Nor Tech with an open cockpit and the other was a bit smaller (not sure of the brand) with a closed cockpit and twin outboard engines. Equally impressive. What a race. No other boats were around and each went on either side of us more than 150’ away. Not close to shore. What a sight and it was okay by me. (The smaller one won by a lot.) Very exciting.
The long and short of my post: Big boat, small boat, it doesn’t matter. It is how you use them. Safety before crazy pleasure for everyone!
Climbing down off my soapbox now. :blush: :D

Performance boats
 

RG, You took the words right out of my mouth. You have stated my opinion exactly. I took a ride 2 weeks ago on a new 30' Baja, the operator was competent, made sure no other boats were anywhere near him when he accelerated & I had a great time. Probably the best riding boat I have ever been on.

Thats not to say I would ever purchase one but it was impressive.

Personally I have other issues
 

There are other issues on the water.

Milfoil was just found within 100 feet of Biggus's
house. The Maine DEP has divers working on the
Songo River at this moment. Invasive's
are a great concern in our region.

Operator issues abound on the lakes.
We believe that this is somewhat do to the
lack of enforcement presence on the lakes.
This is the reason that we contracted dedicated Warden services
in our region.

I constantly hear stories of close calls. I have also been
in some very dangerous situations caused by poor operators.
Of course NH has a mandatory operator certification program.
Maine does not and probably should, but these programs are
hard to pass into law.

I think that we are at one of those times when technology has
exceeded operator ability. I remember when I was young and
I jumped into my dads new Mazda Rx-7. I gunned it around a turn and
ended up fish tailing down the road out of control. My abilities at that
time were not up to the task of operating that vehicle.

This is what I think is happening across the country in the boat area.
Again when I was young a friend of the family had a cigarette
just like Biggus's. I used to ride the second seat during races.
Of course this was on the ocean. One thing I can tell you about
fast boats is, the faster you go the faster something bad can happen.

One of LRSLA's directors has a resume in the navy and on the water
that is unbelievable. He does not back down on the issue that excessive
noise is a safety issue. His belief is that any distraction to the driver
is a safety issue.

Speed and racing have also been an issue on LONG LAKE.
A number of the High Performance boaters being angered at my
activity on the Quiet Lakes issue spent the last month raking my
shoreline at full throttle and full out exhaust. Many of the boats came
closer then the 200 foot safety zone limit. One day I followed a
high performance boat as the operator ran the shore line at about 75 feet
off the shore at full throttle and full exhaust.

Violating the shore line safety zone is dangerous and causes wake damage to the shore line.

In closing I think the greatest issue I have seen regarding noise enforcement
is the tendency of the boaters that receive citations to look for some one else to blame. In our area they chose me and my family. Here I am a guy that is just trying to make the lakes safer for all who use it. The noise issue has been so bad on Long lake that literally you can not carry on a conversation with some one sitting three feet away from you.

Yet when the Warden's writes some one up I am the one getting harassed.
The list is long on the forms of harassment that have been leveled against me. Those same guys that wave the flag are the first to violate my write to free speech. I have been, harassed via email. I have received late night calls telling me to leave town. I have had my cell phone deluged with false calls. I have been threatened with violence repeatedly. I have been cursed out in front of my children. I have had false reports filed against me to the Maine DEP.

Who needs to look for terrorists, we have them right in our own back yard.
I have been maligned and chastised and raked across the coals on national
High Performance Boating web forums.

WHY, because some people don't want to be told to stop violating the law.
The last time I looked, laws were created for a reason. Biggus, the
people that have done all these things are your buddies. These are the
guys you hang out online with and the guys you hang out on the lake with.
Nice bunch of fellow, fine upstanding citizens, that is until they don't
agree with some one else's actions.

In this year of an election, we all need to remember that we are all American's, citizens of a great country. Yet our country is only as great as our tolerance for others beliefs. Look to your neighbor and afford them the same respect that you would request. "Live Free or Die", doesn't mean I'm right and every one else is wrong. It means that we all must have the right to fight for what we believe in with out fear of harassment or prosecution.

High Performance boaters violated my rights.
Those that propagated those actions should be aware that they
have only made me more ready to stay my course.

I've been very civil here, why are you throwing knives in my direction? You don't know who my friends are. As a matter of fact some of my friends are friends of yours. But since I have a performance boat I am lumped into this terror group???

People who do know me tend to like me, actually I am a very likeable guy! I am not the animal you portray me to be.

I do think the LRSLA is very one-sided and full of mis-information. For example when you had my boat on the video clip. the description read that I had been given 3 citations for excessive noise. That is false. I actually was the first performance boat to volunteer for decibel testing when the game wardens recieved their first meter. I was tested later that summer and was over the limit and given a citation. The muffling system was repaired and I was retested and found to be in complience with the law. In three years I have only recieved one citation and my boat now complies with the law.

Another bit of misinformation was the boat you labled as "RED" and read that it was an example of manufacturers trends towards marketing excessively loud boats. That boat is 15 years old!!! Not a new vessell by any means.

Your comment on the noise is so loud that you can't even have a conversation in your own home is just plain unbelievable. I've been on this lake for over 30 years and have never heard anything remotely close to that.

I do agree with the fact that there are quite a few unsafe boaters out there. But the offenders are not performance boaters. I have never seen a perf. boat up here operating in a dangerous manner. Take a trip through the locks some busy weekend, you are sure to see some clowns and many of them are intoxicated. But none of them will be in a perf. boat.

Just because I've responded to some of the Long Lake topics on the "other" site does not mean I agree with some of the rediculous responses that the thread had recieved.

I'm a property owner also. I can appreciate your want for tranquility but you bought a home in the middle of the largest recreation area in southern Maine and to boot, at the narrowest point of the lake and then cry that you can't find "sanctuary" ...sorry but it's not going to be found here, it can be found about 200 miles north.

Aren't you an avid snowmobiler? I am too but my wife and next door neighbors can't stand the sound of them and many are operated in a very unsafe manner. But, they don't plan to start a ban on them like the LRSLA has done to perf. boats.

Is it true that your family owns one of the largest auto parts chains in the US? If so I'm sure that there hundreds of families all over the country that are sick and tired of the ear-splitting racket from the aftermarket exhaust spewing out of Honda's and Toyotas that seem to be popular with the young kids these days.

The LRSLA is very one-sided and smells like hypocrocy in a big way.

The Noise is real
 

This is the problem with limited communication, errors are made on both sides.

First I am NOT an avid snowmobiler. I do own two Polaris 440 sports that I have had for twelve years. In the last twelves years I have put less the five hundred miles on them.

Second, yes my wifes grandfather was one of the original founders of a auto chain. He started when it took three months to drive across the country. But NO her family no longer owns the company, it is a publicly traded company on the NYSE. What this has to do with boating I am not sure.

Third, related to the red Boat, I was in error, I was attempting to point out that smaller boats can make just as much noise. I am sure you are aware of the Rinkers with the side hull exhaust on the lake at this time. There is a trend in recreational boating to sell bow-rider Family type boats that have thru the hull exhaust.

As far as the number of citations you have received, I was only repeating what was told to me by the Wardens. If I was in error I stand corrected.

On LRSLA being one sided, give us a break, we are less then a year old and in that year we have accomplished more in the area of Safe Boating in the Region then had been accomplished in last fifty years. We are a young organization.

As for the Noise and interrupting conversations......
Your disbelief shows that you truly do not understand the impact that the noise is having on the residents. I can only tell you once again that it is this bad and I am not exaggerating in any way the impact. Do you think I want to spend the time I have spent on this issue.
I would much rather be out fishing or spending it with my family.

This is one of the reasons I have so much anger at the noise issue. It has increased to a point were it literally ruins my ability to enjoy my home.

As for the location of my home. I have also been in the area for about thirty years. When I built my home there was not one boat with exhaust like yours on the lake. Once or twice a year a ski boat would come on the lake with straight (dry) pipes, but it would be gone in a day or two. Now there are at least twenty high performance boats on the lake. Their presence permeates the lake environment from one end to the other.
I have calculated that one of the boats passing down the lake is equivalent to at least twenty tractor trailer (eighteen wheelers) passing down the lake at the same time.

So we are now blessed with thirty to forty pass bys on a given summer weekend.

The issue is not that there is traffic on the lake it is that there are boats that are illegal on the lake. On any given weekend I have hundreds of boats passing my property. yet it is the ones that I can hear six miles off in the distance and six miles after they head up lake that seems to be having the greatest impact.

The green scarab was tested at 1/2 mile at 72db, this would mean that he
would have to be at least 95 db operational at 50 feet. 20db over the limit.
Since every three db is a 100% increase in noise intensity, he would be
at least 700% over the legal limit. One Speed was tested at 86db at 200feet
which would mean he would be close to 100db at fifty feet. 25db over the
legal limit, or almost 1000% increase in noise intensity from the legal limit.
You guys need to spend some time studying sound. I could on with twenty six other measurments.


Dude, you have a beautiful boat, i was just down the river last weekend and it was shinny and clean, you should be proud of it. I know your a good guy. I avoided you at the meeting we were at last year for a reason. This issue has impacted me so horribly that I could not control my anger when you introduced your self to me. I just wanted to avoid you, thats it.

I know you would find me a good guy also, I am a good dad, I work hard in my profession, I am well liked and respected, hell I even have great karma,
but I need to protect my investment in my home and ensure that
I can continue to enjoy it.

All I can say is I would rather be spending my time on other issues, but this one hit me were I live literally.

As for LRSLA and it's goals, your are within your right to believe what ever you choose. I work at the direction of my board of directors. We are a Safe Boating and a Quiet Lakes Association. Purchasing 150 hours of Warden coverage for a season is not little task. When the Warden is on the lake he is there to support boating safety. Our safety signs were at three well traveled locations on the lake, and our kids safety coloring books were at
three local restaurants.

Time to chime in
 

Regarding the original question on laws being thrown out: I know folks on both sides of the issue on noise and high performance boats.



There is activity in progress to pursue a change in the law regarding switchable exhaust which is presently illegal in NH. In simple terms: under the existing law, your boat can be loud (but under the decibel limit) or quiet, but not both. The changes being pursued would allow the ability to switch between the two. There are a lot of boats with the capability but were required to disable the muffling device under the law… go figure.



So why would anyone want to switch back and forth? Well, contrary to belief, some of the performance boat crowd I am familiar with would actually desire having the ability to switch from loud to quiet when it’s appropriate. They could muffle the noise to a quiet level when in an area that is sensitive to it – like gas docks, coves, houses, marinas, etc and go back to the classic high performance rumble elsewhere.



Right now NH says be loud, be quiet, but you can’t have it both ways. The new law, if it ever comes to pass, would at the very least give boaters an option to muffle the rumble in their high performance boats. With that option available, I don’t expect the anti-noise crowd to be satisfied with the change; I don't think it meets their goals. I do believe that at least a small percentage of people would use the switchable feature for the reasons I just mentioned. A small number is better than none, right?

Ya know Kurt , I think you're right. I was sitting in my second favorite cove last Sunday with my wife , radio on at a level that we could talk at a normal tone of voice and I was listening to passing boats(both loud and quiet).
At no point did we have to raise our voices to be heard....at no point could I not heard the radio. Airplanes at a nearby airport were making as much or more than the marine traffic. Go figure :confused:
I think some of these "noise" people should be a victims of their own noise if they really want to complain about something ;)

Cal

The effects of noise
 

I thought that it might be interesting for others to understand the effects of
noise. It is important to understand that the normal background noise level
along the lake is about 55>60db during a normal weekend with out
illegal noise present. Illegal noise increase the level to 75>85db.
This increase is a 250%>525% increase in noise intensity.

These measurements are based upon the A-scale. The A-scale does not
fully take into account the effects and impact of Low Frequency noise.
Illegal boat operation predominantly emits low frequency noise.

I have pasted information located on the OSH web site. It's a good
primer on the effects of noise.



What are non-auditory effects?



Hearing loss from long term exposure to noise has been recognized as a hazard for a long time. However, what the non-auditory effects of noise are is still not certain. In general, the suspected effects include cardiovascular function (hypertension, changes to blood pressure and/or heart rate), and changes in breathing, annoyance, sleep, physical health and mental health. This wide range of effects has led researchers to believe that noise has the ability to act as a general, non-specific stressor. Evidence suggests that the stress reaction produced by noise is not unlike that produced by other stressors. The major research problem is that since noise may act as a general stressor, it is very difficult to pin point what the effects of noise are versus the effects of other general stressors.


In the workplace, non-auditory effects of noise include problems with oral communications. It has also been shown that absenteeism appears to be higher among workers in noisy industries. It has not been concluded whether this is from psychological aversion to noise or from physiological consequences of noise stress.


What types of non-auditory effects are there?



Non-auditory effects can be divided into two categories - physiological effects and performance effects.


What are some examples of physiological effects?



The physiological effects can be temporary or permanent.

Examples of temporary physiological effects are:


the startling response to loud noise, where muscles burst into activities, generally, with the intention to protect

the muscle tension response, where muscles tend to contract in the presence of loud noise

the respiratory reflexes, where the respiratory rhythm tends to change when noise is present

changes in the heart beat pattern

changes in the diameter of the blood vessels, particularly in the skin



All those effects are similar to the response of the body to other stressors.


As for the permanent effects, there is no consensus on the issue: some researchers tend to favour the theory that there are permanent effects, while others are skeptical on the issue.


How can noise affect performance?



Noise can interfere with verbal communications and can be distracting and annoying. Below are some examples of how these factors can affect work performance.


Speech intelligibility


Speech intelligibility is the ability to understand spoken words. The presence of noise interferes with the understanding of what other people say. This includes face-to-face talks, telephone conversations, and speech over a public address system.


In order to be intelligible the sound level of speech must be greater than the background noise at the ear of the listener. People with otherwise unnoticeable hearing loss find it difficult to understand spoken words in noisy surroundings.


In noisy work situations, people are able to converse with difficulty at a distance of one meter for a short time in the presence of noise as high as 78 dB(A). For prolonged conversations, the background noise level must be lower than 78 dB(A).


In social situations people often talk at distances of 2 to 4 meters. In such cases noise level should not exceed 55 to 60 dB(A). In outdoor play and recreational areas, people communicate at distances of 5 to 10 meters. In such cases background noise should not exceed 45 to 55 dB(A).

Source: C.M. Harris. Handbook of Noise Control, 2nd Ed. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1979.


Annoyance


Noise is annoying. If exposed to noisy environments, people generally prefer to reduce the noise loudness, avoid it, or leave the noisy area if possible. The same noise could be annoying to some people but acceptable to others. There is no definite relationship between the degree of annoyance or unpleasantness of noise and the risk of adverse health effects. For example, very loud music may be pleasant to one group of people and annoying to another group. Both groups will be equally at risk of hearing loss.


Besides loudness of sound, several other factors contribute to annoyance. The following table lists examples of such factors:



Factors that affect Individual Annoyance to Noise

Primary acoustic factors
Sound level
Frequency
Duration

Secondary acoustic factors
Spectral complexity
Fluctuations in sound level
Fluctuations in frequency
Rise-time of the noise
Localization of noise source
Physiology

Nonacoustic factors
Adaptation and past experience
How the listener's activity affects annoyance
Predictability of when a noise will occur
Is the noise necessary?
Individual differences and personality

Source: C.M. Harris. Handbook of Noise Control, 2nd Ed.. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1979.


Job interference


Depending of the type of activity, noise can severely affect efficiency of a task performance. The following examples will illustrate this point:

a conversation nearby will distract a person and affect his or her concentration, hence reducing the employee's his efficiency

a noisy environment could create an additional hazard, since audible alarms might not be heard

a noisy environment interferes with oral communication and thus, interferes with the activity

Was not the bandwith
 

Mad, I rest my case. (LRSLA's post)

Sincerely
Your Buddy
Will

Incredibly informative , BUT...

[Quote]"These measurements are based upon the A-scale. The A-scale does not fully take into account the effects and impact of Low Frequency noise. Illegal boat operation predominantly emits low frequency noise.".[Quote]
Not to mention [Quote] "As for the permanent effects, there is no concensus on the issue".[Quote]
And [Quote]" The same noise could be annoying to some people but acceptable to others. "[Quote]
So who gives anyone the right to decide what noise is annoying and what isn't with out stepping on someone else rights?

Pehaps you could ask a deaf or hearing impaired person if they would like to hear some "noise"

And like I said [Quote]"At no point did we have to raise our voices to be heard....at no point could I not heard the radio. Airplanes at a nearby airport were making as much or more than the marine traffic."[Quote]
Now since "I" was the one who elected to anchor near an airport I guess "I" would have to accept the noise or move :). Because I am not about to move the airport :)
The entire issue seems rather subjective , much like "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". By those standards do you suggest we ban ugly or fat people or people we just don't care to look at. And who is to decide what fat or ugly really is. Laugh at this if you will , but the issues are a lot closer than you may realize.

Switchable Exhausts - a good compromise?
 

LRSLA, what did you think about Coastal Lakers interesting post on switchable exhausts? There were good questions that were left unanswered here and I for one would like to know your opinion. Thanks. (I am not trying to come across as antagonistic here. Just looking for more information on the issue.) :)

Noise is subjective until there is impact
 

I am not familiar with the specifics of that part of the
NH exhaust regs.

I will forward that switched mufflers work well in areas that
have large bodies of open water to run in. Quiet the exhaust
in proximity to land and then open up two to three miles out.

Switchable exhaust have been in effect outlawed.
Boats in the past would pass the noise tests done by the
Wardens and then run the rest of the day with cutouts engaged.
In the end boats running on inland lakes will have to muffle their
craft to legal levels.

In Maine there isn't such a thing as a legal switchable exhaust any more.
Boats in Maine must meet the 95db and the 75db limits with and with out
cutouts in place. Since there is no way for a water craft to meet the regs
with the exhaust bypassed, cutouts are in essence now illegal in Maine.

Noise is subjective to a point. That point is when it impacts another
person. At that point of impact noise becomes an irritant and a health
issue. There really is no debate about the effects of noise on health.
Noise , sound is now being utilized by the armed forces as a method of
disabling combatants.

During the last three years I have studied sound dynamics and noise
measurement extensively. Our world becomes noisier every year.

I will not be posting for three days.

Noise and dBa
 

Let me step in and see if I can help. Most noise measurements I'm aware of use the Sound Pressure Level (SPL) measured via decibels (dB) using the "A scale" (vs the B or C scales). This logarithmic :eek: measurement tends to mimic the tonal (frequency) response of human hearing with some caveats I'll add in a bit. The math is that X dB SPL means that X = 20 x log(pressure/0.02 mPa). The 0.02 milli Pascals is a somewhat arbitrary reference level (idealized minimum detectable sound level) but the math explains the following. For every 6 dB increase or decrease the SPL doubles or halves and sound pressure (with another caveat) follows the usual inverse square law, halving for each doubling of distance. Said another way if some noise measures 60 dB SPL at 100 ft then at 200 ft it's 54 dB and at 400 ft it's 48 dB. The caveat is that this doesn't account for reflections or refraction of the sound waves. The water surface will reflect (depends hugely on the sea state/calmness) sound which will reinforce certain frequencies and cancel others depending on the distance. Add in echos (reflections) from other surfaces and a hard scientific way of accurately estimating SPL vs distance over the lake eludes me. It may be better or worse that the simple inverse square law everyone likes to mention. I don't know of any good emperical methods to account for lake effects (there may be some rule of thumb, I just don't know it).

The first caveat I mentioned has to do with the A scale. As LRSLA mentions it tends to discount the lower (<500Hz) and higher (>10,000Hz) frequency sounds but it does so because human hearing does likewise, at least at lower SPLs. Human hearing is non-linear in it's response to increasing SPL. We poorly hear low frequency sounds at low levels but as they increase in level we tend to hear them disproportionately louder than we would a similar increase in mid-tones. At loud SPLs perhaps the flatter (frequency response-wise) C scale would be a better match. I'm not sure which should be applied at ... say ... an 80 dBa SPL.

Lastly I would emphasize the non-linear nature of human hearing once again. We don't "hear" a doubling of sound power or sound level that same way a microphone would measure it. I've always heard ;) that a 3 dB increase is just noticeable and a 10 dB is perceived as a doubling in loudness, 20 dB as a quadrupling. A low 60's dBA SPL is normal conversation, mowing the lawn produces mid 80's, a chainsaw something around 100-110 and a Foghat concert (from personal experience) at least 120 :D

So getting back to the topic, I'll opine from my experience in Alton Bay there are a few boats that unlawful and more that are probably at the legal limit. The latter don't stop conversation but are noticable over the general din of the background level. These don't bother me but do annoy "Mee". As I said earlier this is a topic that will get many responses depending on what someone thinks is "too" loud. I brought my trusty RS sound meter up to the lake to get some objective data during bike week, perhaps next season (or this one when possible) I can collect some dockside data to better frame the situation. I don't think it's as bad as some say but I do agree it's a valid point to debate and there are some boats which are too loud even for me. While I can understand trying to wring the best possible performance from the boat, this has to be balanced against the desire of the rest of us to not be disturbed. Especially when 50 extra HP won't make that big a difference in top speed.

Real world noise enforcement
 

Sorry for the delay in posting I have been out of town.


I have to agree with you on the overall quality of the posts on this forum.
This has been a good forum for communication.

You are correct on the operational test being 90db in maine.
I must have had a middle age moment. :-))

The rule of thumb in noise measurement is that doubling the distance from a source decreases the noise level by 6db; Halving the distance increases it by 6db.

So if the operational limit is 75db at fifty feet, and I take a measurement from shore from 1/2 mile away and the SPL (sound pressure level) is 72db. I can assume that at 1/4 mile the measurement would be 6db higher, or 78db. At 1/8 of a mile the SPL should be about 84db. At 1/16 of a mile the SPL should be 90db.

This measurement was forwarded to the Warden service and they caught up with the boat later in the day. The Warden's preformed a Stationary test and the boat failed that test. Later in the summer the boat was cited again and told to tie up until the boat was brought into compliance.

I really need to add that when ever I take measurements or forward info on measurements I add distance to my distance from source measurement.
If I take a measurement at 150 feet I forward that the measurement was taken at 200 feet. I try to build in a conservative approach to sound measurement. LRSLA has begun using laser ranging scope to obtain distance readings.

I have found that most of the boats I have measured are so far over the operational limit that obtaining good quality measurements is not a problem. This why I have pressed the issues with the State. I have found that obtaining operational tests in real world environments is not difficult.

The Maine State operational noise test procedure is supposed to be preformed at fifty feet from the source. All of my measurements were taken at least 200>300 from the source.

I also take wind, temperature and barometric readings prior to take measurements.
I also re-calibrate my meter at the beginning of each test day.

Mee'n'Mac, post was excellent and a very concise explanation of sound measurement. The only issue I would bring up is that noise measurement has not really moved out of the factory and lab and into the real world. Many communities are using the C scale because it more closely represents the impact that audible low frequency sound has on communities.

Additionally my feeling is that a real world impact should be
mitigated by a real world test. In essence, surface water reflection of sound and other impacts on the noise measurement process are OK if they support normal measurement of the normal sound scape on the lake and the noise impact of the boat of issue.

I have witnessed reduction in noise level by trees but never increase in sound levels.


I would speculate that this is due to the extreme amplitude of the
offending craft. One key point is that a source must be at least 10 db over the background noise level in order to measured effectively an legally.

Of course environmental conditions effect the efficiency of a sound wave moving through air and thus can affect it's impact.
Yet once again, this is a real world condition, and if a boat is operating during a time when those atmospheric conditions are present, then the boat should be considered illegal if it fails a test at that time.

Most of my sound traces were taken at around two to three hundred feet from the source boat. All the traces were over 75db even at that distance. Most traces were around 86>89db at two to three hundred feet.

You are correct that you can have a source with a very high db, but almost not be able to hear it. SPM's, (Sound Pressure Meters) are calibrated with a
certified calibrator. A testing officer should calibrate the meter before and after each test. Meter readings can change with changes in temperature and barometric levels. SPM's must be calibrated and the calibrators must be calibrated each year by a certified sound engineer. The certifications are kept with the units to prove this calibration.

The calibrator emits a very precise tone at a specific frequency and a specific SPL. My meter calibrates at 114db. The microphone on the meter is placed very close to the calibrators speaker for calibration and then the meter is adjusted to that level of sound. If you hold the calibrator at arms length you can not hear it. Yet, the sound level adjacent to the speaker is 114db.


As for mandatory education I would support this , absolutely!!!

The reality is that bloody hell would break out in Maine if this were attempted to be floated. LRSLA is planing to bring up the issue when it meets with State Reps this winter. We are not hopeful that the issue will move forward. IFW and the Federal government would love to have a mandatory boater education course in place in Maine. In Maine many of the 6000 bodies of water are not heavily impacted by recreational boating. To ask a fellow who lives in a northern township were he might see ten boats in a summer, to take a boater education course, is a hard sell in Maine.

As far as warning boaters.

We put info in the local press and contacted marina owners to inform them of the enforcement. And as I mentioned this issue has been coming to boil for three seasons. Each season has seen increased enforcement.

I also need to correct one of my statements. The impact of noise is subject on an individual basis. What is not subject is the measurement of sound.
The measurement of sound is extremely objective and scientific.

So if I understand you correctly, this has a lot to do with how far sound carries at night, compared to midday. Part of it is the lack of background noise (other boats, cars, power tools, even wind), but another part of the equation is the flat water, which allows sound waves to carry.

That's a great idea. I wouldn't mind swinging by, as I want to try out some new clamp-on muffler tips. They clamp onto the outside of the thru-hulls, so we can do a test with just my internal muffler system, and then try the tips to see if they reduce the dB level by as much as the manufacturer claims.

Skip was kind enough to post the RSA back in the beginning of this thread, so we can read up on it and do the test under official conditions.

I could even call the MP and ask if they would let us use their official dB testing site over by Timber Island. As of last weekend, they still have all of the buoys in the water, both the ones to moor the test boat to as well as the ones to use as a guide when you do your runs. I snorkeled over there some months ago, and I noticed that the chain for the mooring is getting kinda thin, but I'm sure it will hold.

I have some friends who got tested (and passed), if they are willing and available, we could use their scores to calibrate your meter (or to adjust our test methodology).

I won't be up next weekend unfortunately, but maybe the one after that, if the weather holds. If not this winter, then next spring.

Rob

Voices carry (apologies to Ms Mann)
 

Yes but there are 2 points here. First is the well known phenomenon of how well voices (sound) will carry over the calm lake at night*. Most science articles will tell you that it's due to refraction (bending) of the sound waves as they travel. You'd expect that sound not "aimed" at your ear would pass by you unheard but due to refraction some of the sound initially aimed overhead is bent downward and is effectively now re-aimed and impinges upon your ear. This indirect path can add to the direct path sound and increase the level you hear. I won't bore you with the physics behind the refraction (besides there's some debate as to what effect is actually dominant, air density difference due to temperature inversion or air density difference due to humidity).

The other point is that sound will emanate from it's source in widely varying directions. As I said above you hear only the sound waves that hit your ear but these can come from different directions (other than the most direct, straight line path) as the sound reflects off different surfaces, one being the water itself. Look at the Sun reflecting off the water and now imagine it's sound waves rather than light waves. A calm lake gets you (more or less) a single patch of reflection while a wavy lake gets you multiple, small, time varying reflectors. Other reflectors might be the glass windows of the cabin behind you or from the shore across the way or from ... you get the idea. Just like multiple waves intersecting on the lake can create places where the wave crests are higher (and troughs lower) than any single wave, so can the various sound waves add or subtract to create higher or lower SPLs. How much difference this makes in the real world I don't know but it's interesting that in order to get reproducable results the test procedures call for short distances (50') btw boat and meter and large distance from other potential reflecting items.

Might be a fun experiment. Could make a few passes at varying distances to see how well the real world adheres to the anechoic, free space 6dB rule as well. Only problem would be the MP getting antsy about > headway speed passes :(

*This is one good use for CL's idea of allowing switchable exhaust. One reasonably quiet for daytime and one really quiet for night-time. No doubt too much hassle to enforce though ....

I do have 1 question for LRSLA :confused: How did ME arrive at the 75 dBA limit ? This is more restrictive than NH's 82 dBA. How well do older OB engines do with that limit ? (OK, 2 questions :D )