TSK, tsk, tsk.....
 

Uh-oh....

Here we go, speculatin' again.

Perhaps you have additional insight that you could share with us, insight that allows you to know what is going on in the head of the individual you name? :confused:

hey skip.
if you lived beside the ames farm i wounder if you would have the same attitude you post, i feel that any person is allowed to to what they wont to do with there property as long as it is within the law that you and i have to live by


joe

you are so wright on that statment........

and for this picture it looks so nice but look real close there is nothing going on take that picture in the middle of the summer and lets see the real diffrence and ow ya like i posted before he can do what ever he want with his land but lets not forget why we are here the town has the last word and dont think the town would let you or anyone else build in the wet land the town is only trying to protect the best intrest of the town and lake here for our protection so now what do you think

How would you feel, Joe, with five hundred condo units spread over the three hundred acres and a quarter mile of shorefront of what is currently referenced as Ames?

Due process...
 

No Joe, the town does not have the last word. That right is reserved for our judicial system and only after both parties have been allowed due process to make their respective cases.

Let me repeat that Joe, the Ames family have a right to due process.

Mcdude brought forward an important issue that has an impact on the Lakes Region and one of its better known families. It has made us aware of a serious situation and allowed those of us interested to have a means of following this issue as it moves forward. Comments regarding that process and making us aware of new developments in the case are fair and pertinent.

Speculation as to what the family's thought process may have been or outright accusations that laws have been broken when none of us have even seen charges, let alone the results of mediation or a hearing, are what I believe an uneccesary attack made behind the anonymity of the internet.

No Joe, I do not live beside the accused. But if I did and I thought I had a real case I would keep my trap closed and allow the judicial process and the rights of the accused to move forward the way our State & Federal constitution allow.

Why?

Because next time it could be me (or you) and I would hope to expect the same decency from my fellow citizens!

Ames
 

Fear of condo development should be a non issue. Should we let someone break the law "just in case" they retaliate in some way? That's absurd.

I agree with Mr. V when he said, "The fact that Ames Farm has been around a long time does not, in and of itself, give the current operator(s) a license to run the operation free from government intrusion and regulation".

If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." The law should not be bent for an individual/organization/business because he/they are part of town history, pays high taxes, or a celebrity. The law is the law. If you break it, you pay the price. And if you are caught AFTER breaking it, pay the piper and learn something from the experience.

GB

Is anyone able to get the court documents that have been filed by the town of Guilford so we can understand how the town feels Ames Farm has violated the law? I believe these are public documents.

What cell towers????

I think that without speculation, this forum would be awfully dull and hardly worth reading. It is part of human nature and every news outlet I can think of.
Your comment, "perhaps you have additional insight" sounds an awful lot like good old speculation to me.

speculation or gossip?
 

Very true.

But there is a very thin line that separates idle everyday speculation from potentially harmful gossip. In my humble opinion that line has been needlessly crossed in several preceding posts.

Why the rush to accusation or judgement? We have a system in place that will eventually supply the answers some of us appear to want, can we show a little patience and let that process work before someone inadvertently causes damage to an innocent party?

This thread reminds me of all the times I've read when folks complain the print media runs a front page story when an individual is accused of wrong doing, and somewhere down the road when the charges are downgraded or dismissed the resulting story is buried on page 39! :(

...different ways a-lookn' at it!
 

Now, there's at least three different ways to look at the Ames Farm situation and as you know, Ames Farm has been there for over one hundred years.

For the Ames family, they are under the gun every year to figure out a way to feed the always increasing property tax monster. They probably wonder how, each year, they can afford to keep from having to break up and sell off sections of their farm property.

For the town of Gilford, they need the money to pay for everything, like salaries, the school system, a new high school, library and police station.

For the neighbors, they want to be able to enjoy their waterfront property as they themselves pay relatively big property taxes, but no where near as much as Ames..

And, on the waterfront, most of the assessed property value is usually in the land, and not in the buildings.

see THIS THREAD

So joe, I have a question I posed earlier that you as an abutter and your other neighbors should be able to answer. I understand that you may or may not be responsible for the current situation, but I've got to ask why is it you have dealt with these alleged violations of the law for 13 years without dealing with them earlier? Was something "to major to overlook" done recently? Did the town drag its feet until forced to act?

Gravy Boat raises the point that "If Ames disregarded the law, whether last week or years ago, he/they should be held accountable and take it "like a man." " Which I agree with to a certain extent, that extent being when the enforcement of the law is done only to appease a small portion of the society (abuters) at the expense, in tax dollars, of the entire society.

I'm not a lawyer, and not taking one side or the other, BUT two things come to mind:

1) Statute of Limitations
2) Laches

both of which are meant to prevent harassment of one party by another party who "saves up" offenses to be used at a later time, when this extended time period does the most good for the accuser (such as waiting for the only defense witness to die), or does the most harm to the offender (such as waiting for someone to complete unknowingly building a house on your property, before you claim it yours).

Weirs guy.
no i am not responsable for the current situation.I try to be a good neighbor but when DON A. got caught red handed rerouting the wet lands and putting in a pipe to put more water on to my property and he got caught i just felt thats was enough the town building inspector cought him with an excuvator in the wet lands. he is not above the rest of us.

This statement seems to contridict itself.... Joe please clarify... If Don was caught routing water onto your land.... Did you catch him? Did you call the building inspector? ..... if either of these is true.... then you most likely the cause of some of this current situation....

On the flip side of this I read through this thread this morning. It seems as though the town is pretty specific as far as what they are going after the Ames' about. But yet at least one poster, listed a couple of handfulls of changes the Ames' made over the years. Sure the business has changed as any business has, but not every change requires permission or permits. And before you post a list of changes trying to show wrong doing, you should find out weather any permission was needed, as well as was the permission applied for and appoved. Don't add fuel to the fire by throwing things out there.

I have no doubt that the Ames' have probably goofed once or twice. But what person or business hasn't. Everyone is after all only human. What needs to be decided here is:

1) did the Ames' knowingly do things without permission, or get denied permission and do them anyways....
2) after they where approached by the town and/or state, have they done everything reasonable to try and correct what they are accused of....

And these things will be decided, as skip stated, by the courts.... sorry to tell everyone here, but the only winners I see here are going to be the lawyers......

no i didnt on all of the questions.....................................

I listed the changes
 

I posted the list of changes because someone had posted there hadn't been many changes at The Farm over the past 45 years, which is incorrect. I was not indicating whether or not the changes needed permission. I'm sure some did and some didn't, depending on when the changes were made. Don't put words in my mouth.

It's very easy for people to bandy this topic about when they aren't directly related to the situation. That family and that place is part of my heritage and it's very difficult to see this situation unfold and for people to take a side when they really know nothing about what's going or the individual(s) involved. :(

...paying the Gilford prop tax?
 

Paying the Gilford prop tax has got to be the number one issue here. Figuring out a way w/ boat launch fees, hosting bass fishing events, serving a terrific pancake breakfast, and whatever else works is the big issue. How to pay the prop tax bill, every six months?

It's a publc record, so anyone know what the Ames Farm bill looks like? The property tax is the only way that the town has to raise money for a big long list of spending: schools, roads, police, fire, administartion, transfer station, library, salaries, pensions, Belknap County sheriff, jail, & nursing home, and more.. Everything comes from one tax, the property tax.

Recently, the Gilford Police Dept voted to join the Teamster's Union because it would help the police in coexisting with their boss, the town.

So, what union does Ames Farm, the taxpayer who pays all the bills for Gilford, join to help Ames in dealing with the town?

what dose that statment have to do with not obeying the ruels

It has everything to do with it. Making the money to pay the taxes is the reason for the increased commercial activities that you, a neighbor, do not like.

Ames Farm finds it necessary to turn up the volumn on their revenue making acivities because the town has greatly increased their prop tax bill. It's a direct cause and effect situation.

look pal,
why dont you spend a little time and read the papers to find out all the facts before you take sides

By the above qoute, it appears that you are getting a bit upset and the fingers are going faster than the brain.:)

Lake Winnipesaukee has a long history as a bass fishing, speed boat, and water recreation area in addition to being the property tax base for central NH. As the building lots around the 200 mile waterfront have been 99.44% built-out, some compromises must be made to accomodate all the different users of Lake Winnipesaukee.

you may have a point there but that dosnt give them the right to disobey the laws that we all have to live by.i love fishing ,boating just like every one else but i have to obey the ruels.We all have the same problem about taxes .

Ames Farm is a vestige of a bygone era.

Very "old school," traditional, with little invested in the property by way of capital improvements (at least so it would seem).

Which I can certainly understand, as the owners have had to figure out a way to make the property pay for itself, plus yield a decent profit: otherwise, what's the point of owning a big chunk of beautiful lakefront, unless you are a gazillionaire who builds a Mcmansion and comes to visit occasionally for personal use?

Ames Farm, as currently structured, is a commercial endeavor, and they need to turn a buck.

If in fact Ames ignored the rules and / or bent the rules in order to save money, that would seem to indicate a flawed business model on the part of Ames Farm.

I would suspect that any scofflaw behavior was premised upon perceived business necessity and not on personal arrogance, but I really do not know.

Odds are quite good that a reasonable settlement to the cities' lawsuit can be arrived at, and Ames Farm can continue to operate, but Ames may choose not to.

This must be an embarassment, a black eye, and a provocative, festering sore for Ames Farm.

Were I the owners of the property, this could be the final straw to induce me to say "Bah, it ain't worth it!" and then decide to sell, brother, sell.

My families' property is near Ames Farm, and I would miss the view of the white cottages grouped on the beach, but it is their call, not mine.

Personally, I hope they can figure out a way to make it continue to work, but their costs of doing business are climbing (hello, property tax!), and it may have reached the point that it just isn't viable anymore for Ames Farm to try to operate their Business As Usual.

Cruel world.

Thanks Joe, that answers my question that something "too big to overlook" did occur. While I personally HATE the fact that so many permits/rules/ect. exist that constrain what property owners can do on the property they pay for, the rules are pretty clear for wetlands.

If I was in this situation I'd be pretty PO'ed too.

thanks for your understanding

Ames Farm
 

I would have really like to see the town buy or make some arrangements with the Ames family, similar to the ones made with other farm owners in GIlford. The farm would be the last major piece of lake front in the town, and instead of a useless pond we would have been far better off to arrange with the Ames family to preserve the land and the site for the use of the town. Let the family continure to occupy the site, but convert the site to use of Gilford residents only. Additonal Beach and launching facility would take the pressure of the current town beach and ramp.

Although some would have little to say about the permitting process on the lake I will share my expereinces in maintaining my breakwater. It costs me thousands in fees, and permits to maintain the rocks every few years.

Joe mispells too much!
 

The well known quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet goes: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Similarly with regards to Joe, the man doth mispell too much, methinks! Could all those mispellings be a lawyerly scheme to dumb down the forum readers thinking on himself.

Hey Joe, duh, say whatuth? :rolleye2:

Two Shakespeare quotes for ya
 

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."

and

"Cudgel thy brains no more about it, for your dull 'mule' will
not mend his pace with beating."

Adios, muchacho

WOW, can you imagine how much the tax rate would be for the people of Gilford to try and make that a reality????? "Let the family continue to occupy the site, but convert the site to use of Gilford residents only" Now how would they run the restaurant part and the cabins???

[QUOTE=fatlazyless]The well known quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet goes: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Similarly with regards to Joe, the man doth mispell too much, methinks! Could all those mispellings be a lawyerly scheme to dumb down the forum readers thinking on himself.

Hey Joe, duh, say whatuth? :rolleye2:[/QUOTE

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE SUCH AN --S

Ames Inn before Gilford Planning Board
 

In a related issue, this ARTICLE in today's on-line edition of the Citizen covers a recent Gilford planning board meeting. One of the topics of discussion that night, the marina operations at Ames Inn.

In my imagination, most all of the income goes right back to the town for semi-annual property tax payments, every June and December. Just how much is Ames Farm's property tax bill?

If the Ames' prop tax has increased from $2800 to 8200/month in the last three years, which is very much a real possibility, it creates a lot of pressure. Pressure to increase their cash flow. So, how to increase the cash flow in order to cover the town's tax bll. What do they do to make the extra money?

In our unusual NH tax system, Senator Gregg can win an 850 thousand dollar powerball and the state gets a great big zero in tax revenue. But, go buy a McChicken sandwich and the state gets 8 cents tax as it's an 8% prepared food tax. Now, who has the better ability to pay, Senator Powerball, or Joe McChicken?

Isn't Ames Farm really all about the New Hampshire Advantage tax system at work here?

FLL, it's been over a year since the last McChicken, Gregg, Powerball reference, what's going on? :D :D

Over and over.The poor horse has rotted away
 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.You would think someone as creative as FLL could come up with something new.