Maybe I'm just tired, but making the analogy of walking on the interstate (where people are going 55-70 MPH depending on where you are) and paddle boarders around a dock (where it is headway speed) I think is apples and oranges.
The better analogy would be people are banded from walking in parking lots.

I drive by bicyclists every day down many main, windy, narrow roads with not breakdown lanes. Speed limit is 40-55 in different areas, bike going maybe 20MPH if flat area. We share the road, yes there are accidents where bikes get hit all the time, and I'd say 90+% are due to not paying attention (not just saying the car, but the bike too). But no one is banning the bikes off the road.
I don't know any of the details of this accident except what's on this thread and there isn't much.

I don't think EKAL is going to change launch locations.
And I doubt that paddle boarders would accept another location easily.

The public space is simply the public space, with non-motorized having ROW.
The fact that traffic has increased is problematic, but traffic... especially motorized could quickly fade.

Non-motorized users are a more steady stream of income... they aren't likely to zip across the lake to other dining/shopping outlets.

That makes no sense to me at all, but thats just my perspective,,,

They are comparing speeds.
When the motorized speed is limited, less accidents between all users occur.
Everyone sometimes get distracted, but the slower speed allows for adjustment in our reaction times.

If I am moving slowly around a parking lot, in theory, I should be less likely to strike someone walking around... even though there, in theory, could be a lot more walkers in the area.

Well EKAL can simply live with the bad press if problems continue,,,

As for ROW, that does little heal the injured that will surly continue to occur if you continue mix such extreme levels of watercraft in that same space.

And regarding "Non-motorized users are a more steady stream of income" I could not disagree more, Meredith is a destination. Clearly you spend little time on the water at the Meredith docks. Even during the week its tough to get a spot to dock for your boat without some wait, and boaters go there for shopping and food and they wait and they spend. I seriously doubt Non-motorized users spend even a fraction of what the power boaters spend in Meredith.

And finally, regarding "motorized could quickly fade" no idea what you base that on. During the height of the pandemic, I struggled to get dock space in Meredith during the middle of the week, and its not getting better as the pandemic restrictions are being rolled back. Last week we were quoted a 1 hour wait for lunch at one of the restaurants close to the dock location and it was evident that many there were boaters. In the last year we recorded record boat sales and this year you cant even get one as there is very little inventory. Formula is currently telling people to put orders in now for next years delivery or risk not getting one and they are running at full capacity.

This challenge of boaters and paddle boarders both operating in the close quarters of public dock space will not get better until towns make better and safer locations available to paddle boarders. Well not until someone invents deflector shields,,,

Again, that makes no sense at all, that entire area is a no wake zone and no one normally operates a power boat at speed around a dock, you are always at idle speed.

Accidents happen at the docks for a wide variety of reason and will continue to happen, but any accident involving 2 boats is very different than one involving a boat and a paddle boarder. The thought of this happening is frightening.

A person on a paddle board is incredibly vulnerable when paddling around the size boats we now see at Winnipesaukee town docks. I would not even consider it myself, but I do sympathize that there is a lack of better options for where to launch paddle boards on Winnipesaukee, its not much better for boaters and always a challenge.

EKAL isn’t that close to the busiest part of the docks. I don’t think the majority of people realize there are two public docks on that side. Guess I shouldn’t have been launching my kayak next to the jet ski launch in Glendale.


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Slow speed without a specific lane and direction of travel would be like the automobile moving around the parking lot... not like an automobile moving down the interstate.
That is the comparison.

They didn't note specifically where the accident occurred. But as the economy begins to back off... less expensive pursuits tend to be the grounds we build our local business on. So we protect those less expensive pursuits.

From the pictures I’ve seen on the I boat… Facebook page, it was at the end of the dock on the right.

Attachment 17153


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Canoes and kayaks are easier to control than a paddle board, people (even inexperienced ones) rarely fall out. Paddle boarding is not so much this way, it takes practice, you say you are into all 3 so you know this. Now put a new inexperienced person on one say a renter and put them in an already congested area like the Town Docks in Meredith and YES no good can come from that. They have no business being there. Im not saying they have no business on the lake, because EVERYONE has the right to enjoy doing what they do its my opinion and im sure others that its a bad idea. Personally IDK why anyone would want to canoe, kayak or paddle board on Winnipesaukee its crowded and the water is rough on weekends, how is that enjoyable? I live on Hermit Lake in Sanbornon, this is a perfect lake for those activities, 10hp pontoons only, no other boats allowed, its quiet its peaceful and enjoyable for sure.

That is exactly the point I was making. Any docking area is basically a "parking lot" on land. Just like at the Patriots games when leaving. Have to be more aware of your surroundings to not run over the people walking in and out of the traffic. And for that matter, cars coming from every direction to get to one small opening.

Call me old school, crazy, whatever, but kayaks, canoes, paddleboards, etc. should take MORE care than larger vessels. This doesn't mean that operators of larger vessels are off the hook in any way from paying attention, but the possibility of extreme damage on zero-protection toys requires more proactive safety decisions.

This approach kept me and my cycling riding group safe(r) for thousands of miles over the years, as the routes, times, and behaviors were chosen carefully to minimize potential damage from automobile driving mistakes, etc.

For this reason, other than launching/retrieving, I wouldn't be anywhere near public docks, crossing busy areas, paddling at night, etc.

Anyone have the Instagram video yet?!

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I Swear...
 

Lake Winnipesaukee won't be safe until canoes, kayaks, sailboats, and SUPs are legally swept from the lake!

And posts like this kept from the forum,,, :(

Right you are! And get rid of those noisy loons too. No non-motorized craft, franchise The Dive so there are a dozen of them on the lake, and make overnight rafting at sandbars legal. It will be a paradise! :D

Dont forget run sewer lines into the lake to save on septic system costs, and besides its natural fertilizer :cool:

I believe that would be Church Landing, right next to the Lakehouse... basically right were EKAL is located.

Yes, you can see EKAL labeled in the image. This is where they launch. It’s typically quiet. Not sure what the brouhaha is about them moving where they launch. They don’t launch at the main docks.


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The discussion about moving were they launch was about people launching at the boat ramp, not EKAL.

Some part of the overall discussion was about the risks of all paddle boarders paddling around the boat docks, but not specifically EKAL.

EKAL was where it happened.
They inhabit that little cover area along with the other operations at Church Landing.

Mixing 30ft boats and paddle boards (and the like) are bound to cause problems.

Do we allow skate boards on the highway?

I don’t think paddle boards, kayaks, canoes or swimmers should be in and around docks built for large vessels.

Then why post about bad press for EKAL in post #45?


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Understood, but the conversation turned to others experiences about launching at the public ramp and the risks of operating paddle boards in that same space as the boats.

Discussion about banning paddle boards around docks aside, clearly there risks for everyone in and around docks, but its quite different for 2 25' boats to bump into each other than a 25' boat bumping into a paddle boarder. That just just frightening to me. Hope I never see it let along be involved in such,,,

As the incident in question happened when a paddle boarder came into close proximity to a boat dock, an always dangerous place.

So many situations where such an accident could happen where the boat operator would have little ability to prevent it, but that if the paddle board was not operating so closely to the dock it could have been avoided.

Not saying this was one of those situations, but there are conceivable situations where a boater could not see a paddle board in motion but hugging the end of a dock passing in front of a moving boat where the operator will not be able to stop the boat in time. So in those cases and impact is virtually inevitable unless you keep paddle boarders some distance from the docks.

And once there is any accident, ANY accident, it will cause some people to be afraid for renting/using paddle boards and thats truly a shame. It looks like a really reasonable and fun and usually safe activity, but not around active boat docks.

Just a few feet could be a huge difference.

Of as said before remove all the boats, or all the paddle boards, or invent deflector shields, etc ;-)

ATB

There are a couple of cases of open carry incidents in the link below that might make you reassess your perspective.

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com...of-open-carry/


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How about an 8' RIB with a 2 HP outboard, or a 10' jon boat with only a trolling motor for propulsion. Should those be allowed around public docks that larger boats use?

Just asking in terms of trying to understand where the limit is that people feel adds risk. My paddle board is 12'6", and I'm over 6' tall. I have a tandem kayak that is 16' long. A 10' jon boat is smaller than either, and similar profile to the kayak. And with a trolling motor is quite a bit less responsive than either of the paddle powered craft.

Listen, I get it that mixed use can add risk. Going across NY Harbor in an 18' runabout with 600 ft. freighters in both directions has potential for bad things to happen. I just have a hard time, after a lifetime of "power boats yield to non-powered boats", accepting the idea that kayaks have to stay away because boats with 600 HP can't maneuver around them without risking their lives.

As the operator of paddle board, kayak, or jon boat you tell me???

If I am in a 30' power boat 4' off the water and leaving a dock on one side with just enough throttle to keep control with some wave and some wind, what are your expectations for me to see you AND be able to stop if you are traversing in a direction that will cross my exit path but you are not viable to me because you are to low or hidden behind another boat and I dont see you until you are right in front of me.

In a jon boat you will not be happy by the 2 - 5 MPH collision that will likely occur, but you may not be harmed. In a kayak, you will likely get knocked over, but again at that speed I would not expect serious injury. On a paddle board, I would have great fear you could suffer significant injury.

So assuming conditions such as I describe, where a power boat is leaving a dock at a reasonable speed, but a jon boat operator or a kayaker or a paddle boarder is traversing very close to the end of the dock ready to pass in front of the power boat but is not in any way viable to the power boat operator, how do we prevent a collision?

If I am missing something about this scenario as a boat operator, I welcome any tips anyone is willing to share, BUT I have ZERO interest in hearing its just your responsibility. That will not avoid a collision in the situation I am describing, nor will changing the scenario. This is specific to situations where the paddle board, kayak, or jon boat is NOT visible to the boat operator and will be crossing their path of exit with no advance warning possible.

Doesnt happen often, but it is something no one ever wants to experience.

So how do we prevent it, or not,,,

Just a general observation but ya know, there are "crosswalks" painted on the road for a reason. So you don't have individuals running across a busy road or intersection trying to dodge traffic.

I would thing the same sort of logic applies here. Paddleboards have no business being anywhere near areas of boat traffic\congestion. Anyone, especially anyone inexperienced that decides this is a good idea is deserving of a Darwin award.

Here's a suggestion. People keep talking about boats getting bigger, 30' boats are mentioned. Why don't we go back to old school, the people powered boats (canoes/kayaks) have been part of the lake WAY before big power boats.
SOOOOOO, if you look at it that way, the bigger power boats that "don't have control to have control" should be banned.
Why should the boats that were on the lake from the start of boat transportation on the lake be banned from anywhere on the lake?
Just another way of looking at a crazy idea of what people are saying. Just reverse what you are saying.
And just in case you are wondering, I do captain a 24' bow rider, have multiple kayaks, and a canoe.
Honestly will any of these ideas actually happen, no. But at some point always have to look at other ways of thinking.

Exactly. Or two paddle boarders bumping into each other.

The mix of scale is just asking for trouble in such close quarters and it's the big vessel that will be in big trouble even if the small vessel did something dumb.

It doesn't work that way.
Town docks mean that town residents, and business owners, will have the greatest say in what the policy will be.

Since this was private docks, they will determine what the policy will be.

Learn how to drive your boat. If you can't handle a 30 foot boat in close quarters with out hitting a paddle boarder and running up on a dock, then you are the problem. This is a boat driver problem, not a paddle board problem.

I have a 27 foot boat, I've had paddle boarders come close to me many times. My boat did not hit the paddle boarder, nor did it end up running up on a dock. Here's a hint, if the thought of this makes you nervous, you need more work and practice on handling your boat. If you think your boat needs to be traveling at a certain speed to be controllable, then you need practice, lots of it.

The world seems to be just brimming full with self-proclaimed perfect human specimens.

I cant wait until the little green men come down and ask to see our role models, I'll know just where to point them for perfect boat operator. :D

No one is perfect, but if a captain is afraid of people near the boat while underway, that captain is not safe.

I see it all the time when I'm near a dock, people afraid of hitting something, gunning their boat so they won't hit it. An absolutely wrong, but prevalent reaction.... a dangerous reaction.

Seriously, if anyone is afraid or worried about hitting a paddle boarder near their boat, they need some training on how to operate the boat. Give the coast guard auxiliary a call, or a local marina, or someone who knows how to operate a boat to give lessons. It's not that hard, but it just doesn't happen, you need to practice it.

Totally ridiculous statements, no point in responding, I simply hope you never find yourself in "that" position.

ATB

I do like this. Just like driving a car. The ones that are afraid of driving are the ones that are usually in situation that might cause a car accident.
The Boating license in NH gives NO training on how to actually operate a boat. I remember a guy that insisted he knew how to operate his boat, he took the old Burger King docks out twice!! He always blamed the waves moving the dock.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Sorry ANYONE who operates any powerful motorized vehicle and says they have no fear of running over a paddle boarder/bicyclist/pedestrian/ect should not be behind the wheel. Operating boats and cars on public roads and waterways is not NASCAR you need to keep a healthy dose of concern front an center. There is no place for arrogant operators that believe they can do no wrong. This is just foolish and irresponsible soapbox grandstanding.

Its no wonder we dont have far more accidents with attitudes like that.