The generic name for the Dominator and her ilk is "Offshore".

That is where they belong!

Following your logic
 

Offshore boats belong, offshore.

Then kayaks must belong in rivers. Canoes belong in ponds. Sailboats belong on the ocean, where there is plenty of wind and sea.

Let see Jetski's, well most people would like them anywhere but here, but I think they are fine on the lake.

That leaves 0-20ft that is permissible on the Lake? Is that what you want Islander?

Oh and lets not forget those awful cabin cruisers(said sarcastically)...... Where do you think they belong?

I am not arguing that it is seems crazy to have some of these boats on lakes instead of oceans but if used properly and within the CURRENT laws there would be no problems.
Why is it that I can hear super loud exhausts whenver I am near the NASWA or braun bay but the M.P. does not do anything about it?

2 weeks ago I was going through the narrow entry behind Long island while it was very busy. So busy I actually went way outside the markers (On my Seadoo with 6" draft) to avoid the chaos. While the M.P. was giving a ticket a bowrider went within 20' of the patrol at 25-30MPH weaving right through all the boats that were going headway speed. he was completely oblivious to anything going on. It was clear to me then the boating license program has failed and more mandatory education is needed. Not merly just a law to slow fools down.

I believe that Sunsation is the owners I met last weekend,it was just purchased directly from Sunsation.

PBR wrote
Where can this be found in print?

As I mentioned previously (post #30), please read the report and draw your own conclusions as I have. Everything is defined. It is very comprehensive. I provided the link above (post #15).

For example, the two drownings last year (on Winni) are included because "boating accidents involving a swimmer, a recreational vessel and its operation" are included. According to reports I read, neither vessel was under power. In those cases "Casualties while swimming from a vessel because the vessel is not anchored, moored or docked - and - the vessel drifts away from the swimmer and the swimmer is unable to get back to the vessel" are included. 90 fatalities occurred while "not moving".

4fun. I agree with you, education hasn't helped. I think tickets are the only way to teach! I have seen more violations of the no wake/150' law since the boating safety started, than ever.

I have noticed that boats are getting closer before dropping off to no wake speed now that the MP has put those markers up at most of the public docks to show how far 150 feet really is. I must confess, it's a much shorter distance than I thought it was and I've adjusted, thanks to those markers.

I'd say I've seen the usual amount of boneheads this year. The MP has sat out by Sandy Pt and handed out tickets for infractions of the 150' rule for years. My guess is this year is about average but it would be interesting to find out. I always get a kick when someone passes the marked MP boat less than 150' away and on plane. It's pretty much a weekly occurance. Maybe half the time there are completely clueless and the other half they slow to mush speed.

Since the "speed" statistics are a hodge-podge of numbers, and the compilations incredibly subjective, I don't see how an objective conclusion can ever be drawn.

News reports show a big boat running over the smaller boat. The smaller boat was occupied by two adults on their first date. The news presumes the two to be watching the night skies during the Perseids meteor shower, as witnesses have stated.

A stationary or anchored boat is presumably best for viewing a meteor shower. In fact, the override would have been avoided if the smaller boat had the capability to move. Anchoring at night is legal on Long Lake.

The boat that collided with them that night was reported to have a teenaged girl as the only passenger, with a driver twice her age. Not the formula for sympathetic witnesses or jurors.

The Coast Guard would record four "falls overboard", because everybody involved fell out. The reported speed of the accident would be the presumed speed of the struck boat.

That's because the exact speed of the colliding boat, though presumably high due to the ejections from the speedboat, is not material. When two fatalities occur, it doesn't matter if the speed was 50 or 150 mph for statistics. It does matter if the struck boat was anchored or drifting.

We've seen instances where a solitary boat upset has lost every passenger to drowning. What is recorded as the speed of that unwitnessed upset? Not all boats drift away from a swimming passenger who would be recorded as a drowning fatality. Not all fatalities in the "speed" category will be the result of a boat collision. But if a collision, it should be recorded as the speed of the victim.

It's a hodge-podge of numbers drawn from a hodge-podge of circumstances. Anyone drawing conclusions from that table is using their own personal crystal ball.

So, it seems that since statistics aren't supporting the need for a speed limit, they are discreditable. What statistics or evidence, other than emotion, does any one have for supporting the speed limit. Simple, and objective question.

Since statistics don't support it, speed doesn't support it, boat size doesn't support it, horsepower doesn't support it, what does? I'd be willing to bet that if the 2006 stats did hint of the desirability of the speed limit supporters would be all over it defending them, but since they don't, they are not credible. But based on their prognostications, they have a crystal ball. What evidence do they have supporting it?

So, the question looms, what does support the need for a speed limit? I have yet, in over three years, heard a reasonable, rational, supported argument. All I've heard is a lot of emotion and "oh I wish this was Golden Pond (many prop supporters have used the Golden Pond analogy, even in this thread if my memory serves)". We'll, it ain't. If you want Golden Pond , go to Squam. It's lake Winnipesaukee, it's not Lake George, it's not lake anything but what it is. There are a lot of rude and inconsiderate people boating on our lake. A speed limit won't change that. I think we can all devote our collective efforts to make it better, but IMHO a speed limit isn't it. How many of the supporters of the speed limit are involved in any boating safety groups? I'm involved in 2 (not NHRBA or WinnFABS :D ) and I don't believe anyone in either group coincidentally suports speed limits. Unfortunately, at my age, I have limited energy so, I will direct what I have left on this issue to the legislature, as an unpaid but passionate lobbyist, and not this forum. Over and out!

I think I'll go have my trans fat donut while I still have the chance. BTW, I think they used trans fats making On Golden Pond donuts though I don't have statistical evidence to prove it.

Amen! PBL.

A double amen with a side of GFBL. Seriously, when do we start the pool to guess how long it'll be before WinnFABs starts the speed limit push again, and how long before the MP can sell their radar guns and use the money on boater education?

How long??? I will tell you
 

They NEVER STOP, they are dedicated extremists. If you think for one minute they aren't still working on this you are mistaken. They have wined and dined literally some of the legislators! Guess whose tab and facilities hosted that.

We need the people on this forum who have now seen the real agenda of winnfabs, to come out to the hearings, and/or contact your legislators and tell them to vote NO on HB 847!!!! I am not asking you all the join NHRBA, or any other organizations, I just want you to use your voices, be heard in Concord. If you don't the persistance of Winnfabs will pay off. You see all there nonsense sounds plausible to the non boating public. We all know better, but you know how many state reps are boaters? A handful maybe! Again I can not stress enough, stating your opinions here on the forum are great, but we need your support in Concord to beat back this Bill.


Say No to HB 847


WBB

Hey WBB...

I couldn't agree with you more... I found out by first hand experience of some of the hidden agendas by posting my first "Informational" thread regarding the no rafting hearing in East Cove (see other thread). They came out of the woodwork with their agendas and that has become a hot button topic too! Although I feel the forum is a great avenue to get the info out there, it is NOT the final stop... I have joined the NHRBA and I am also going to go to the no rafting hearing in Moultonborough on the 31st... I want to make my voice heard and I want to stop all the nonsense and hidden agendas of the supporters of the bill... I am just starting to evolve on the forum and will stand up against any issue that I feel is unfair and an infringement of my rights as a citizen, taxpayer, and responsible boater!!! Thanks...

Back to the Subject...
 

Where I live, the width of Winnipesaukee is the same as Long Lake. (Getting back to the subject). Starting only in this decade, I've been watching anarchy growing on Winnipesaukee, just as it's being discussed in Maine now.

Are you directing those of us who've turned our Lake Winnipesaukee cottages into retirement homes to move to a safer lake? :confused:

Bumping this thread with some interesting info...

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/st...30175&ac=PHnws

A non-update, update
 

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/homepage/x1649541001

A go-fast society
 

You're right. Our biggest problem is that we are in an increasingly "go-fast" society where ad slogans like "It's all about you" are everywhere and young people are being taught that nothing bad is ever their fault.

This sort of incident is just the beginning of what the "go-fast" mentality leads to.

It's not just on our lakes, either: It's on the roads, and on the news (flashy attention-grabbing graphics and fast-paced stories with little or no time for real information.) It's in our food (instant prepackaged everything with an emergency rip-cord so you can get that Twinkie open in a hurry) and now we are hearing more frequently about young children being over-stressed by their full schedules. Where has childhood gone?

Zip-zip, quick, get ahead. But this 'Ahead:' Is it really worth its price tag? I think it's time we as a society start demanding the de-popularization of "Fast" unless it relates to something that really IS important, like saving a life.

An ARMY of ONE!
 

Wolf man, I really don't know what you are posting about.

An accident happened in Maine, authorities in Maine are investigating, a Go Fast boat was involved but it seems from the latest article that there are still unanswered questions.

That's pretty much it.

Are you advocating we go back to the days of a horse and buggy? That was slow.

Giving up your motorized vessel soon?

My response was to the postings about this incident's effect on the movement to establish boating speed limits here in NH. I expressed agreement that they wouldn't work. My reason for believing they won't work: A law can't do anything if the entire society has "go-fast" on its mind. Laws only work when society wants them to.

I didn't say anything about going back to the past. What I did say is that I see a trend, everywhere in society, that "go-fast" and self-absorption are becoming popular. I think that is one driving force behind our numerous Captain Bonehead sightings, but the problem isn't limited to our lakes.

Summary: The problem on which others in this thread have commented has deep roots and therefore it will take more than laws to solve it. Since we are a nation that follows the lead of what's popular, and because I don't want more laws, I think the best solution is a publicity movement to popularize the things we'd like to see -- in this case, safer, more courteous boating practices.

Well put. I could not agree more.

CanisLupusArctos I misunderstood your post.
Your explainification :) was well put and I apologize.
AW

Airwaves, apology accepted. Thank you for calling out my confusing post, too. Reminds me to refrain from internet usage at hours when my brain is operating in 'Safe Mode'. :) Have a great day,

Wolf Man

Right you are!
 

CanisLupusArctos has is just about right with the present trend toward "self-absorption". One of the things that caused me to be a former teacher was the increasing obsession with "self-esteem" and the distressing idea that everyone's opinion was to be treated equally regardless of how off-the-wall it was. This was a particular problem for me as a science teacher. I butted heads with more than one administrator when I had the poor sense to actually tell a student an answer was wrong! It didn't matter that went on to work out the right answer. Self-esteem had already been damaged. These self-obsessed adults are the product of that environment. Me! Me! Me! And the rest of you be damned! It makes a good Libertarian like me gag when people insist on their "rights" and ignore the responsibilities and restrictions that accompany those rights. Your "right" to put your fist wherever you want ends where my nose begins.

Boat courteously!

amen
 

As a current HS science teacher I couldn't agree more! In our district 60% of the middle school students are on the Honor Roll. Are you kidding?! It doesn't last when they get to us that's for sure.
These are probably the same people we see on the lake who have such a huge sense of entitlement and also the idea that whatever they do is OK you just get out of their way:rolleye2:

Well said!!! How about a variation on that quote: "Your right to throttle up your boat/PWC ends where my 150-foot perimeter begins!"

I'm disturbed by what you two science teachers said. I'm only just past 30, so it wasn't too long ago I was in high school, and self-esteem wasn't an issue at all unless some kid was talking suicidal. If that much has changed in so few years, that's disturbing. I began to wonder what was going on in schools when I went to a Little League Baseball championship this past summer and watched *both* teams get equal trophies at the end. I think you're right, if kids grow up with such emphasis on self-esteem they're going to think this entire lake belongs to them. From what you say, it sounds like they'll also have no appreciation for the nature of the lake because it's hard to learn how ecosystems work in science classes where teachers can't correct wrong answers.

And don't forget (sorry skprbob, just using your quote), your right to stick your nose some place ends where my fist begins. Just as a point of debate, as I agree with most of these recent posts, lets not forget that todays "go fast" society is based on that which previous generations have taught us. My kids aren't making this up as they go along, just like I didn't.

No Surprises Here...
 

New Hampshire Boater's Guide, page 32, first paragraph:
Some newbies didn't read their New Hampshire Boater's Guide—available free of charge. :(

Still disagreeing with need for laws
 

Having learned to drive a boat on the lake since age 5 and the kind of dorky kid who read the navigation rules on Dad's lake chart because it seemed interesting, I saw the Boater's Guide too and disagree with its expression of a "need" for laws. What's needed is a change in the public's fast-paced attitude. Without that, laws may be written but they'd be useless.

There are all kinds of things that are forbidden, yet remain constant problems (drugs, murder, theft, robbery, traffic violations, the list goes on...) That stuff SHOULD be illegal and should stay that way... but my point is that the law doesn't actually do much to stop any of it unless large amounts of money are spent on strict enforcement. What really makes those problems better is anything that triggers a change of attitude among would-be offenders - like when ordinary citizens get involved and start getting creative. Public attitude towards anything can be changed regardless of whether it's forbidden or not (just look at fashions - what's "in" and what's "out" changes every year without any help from the law.)

If there was a way to locally advertise "Captain Bonehead shall be shamed & shunned" there are a lot of would-be boneheads who'd start to believe it after a while.

Sounds like a nice project for either this site or a similar one? See a bonehead, take a pic, post it with the pertinent info for all to see?

Weirs Guy wrote:
BoatUS offers grants every year to folks and organizations that come up with ideas to advance safe boating. Put together a proposal and give it a shot ;)

Update
 

Update to the story. Indictments have been handed up.

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll...S0104/71005041

From the Fosters article:

LaPointe is also charged with four counts of aggravated operating under the influence and one count of reckless conduct with a dangerous weapon.

Lets try and bear that in mind while blaming the GFBL boat for the accident.

Perhaps a re-visit to the colonial days, and have a floating set of stocks for the offending Captain Boneheads. They could be anchored out from the Weirs, in view of the WeirsCam, and of course full view of the Mount and Sophie & Doris. :D Biggest problem is, "Do we overbuild and have many stocks on it for all the offenders, or build small so that we can have offenders for most of the summer". Oh decisions decisions decisions:rolleye2:

The GFBL is innocent—the GFBL's attorney says so:

And a Maine paper quotes a State Attorney source:

Yup. Just another isolated incident. :rolleye1:

And so the legal one upsmanship begins
 

Another article re: the Maine crash
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/homepage/x143402264

Snipped from APS's quote:
...as he piloted his boat with dual 435-horsepower engines down the lake...

Its all in the spin baby!

My point was more that we should not lay blame for this at the feet of the kind of vessel being operated in the dark by the drunk. Would the victims families feel better had Mr. LaPointe killed their loved ones with a 20' bow rider (thats still capable of 45 MPH without the dual 435-horsepower engines) going to fast and drunk? I doubt it.

Booked and Bailed
 

The latest on the Maine accident from the Sunjournal:
http://www.sunjournal.com/storyupdat...be3f407301#384