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Summary: Good time to sell was last year for those underfunded for the long-run downhill that lies ahead. Time will tell and best wishes to all with regards to not seeing the "family farm" go bye-bye at auction. :eek: |
Reasons I haven't been to the lake as much this year
Weather. Last year I was waterskiing in May. The high water and NWZ kept us away until the lake level returned to normal levels and the No Wake restrictons were lifted.
The high price of gas is a factor, when you consider the fact that it doesn't just impact my leisure costs, towing and operating a boat, but it impacts me every day as I drive 80 miles to get to and from work. Factor in my truck isn't the ideal commuter car and I cringe as I fill it up twice a week just to get to work, but then an economy car wouldn't make a very good tow vehicle. Finally the biggest impact - baseball. My son made the all-star team and the baseball season was extended through July this year. At least the high price of gas is some comfort as I contemplate all of the lost days at the lake. |
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In regards to tourism numbers being down, I agree. I think everyone's response is on the money for different small groups. Add all the small reasons together and you have a significant drop in visitors to the lake and drop in revenue. I've been "going up" to the lake for over 50 years and have seen the recent trend in fewer people during mid week (Monday - Thursday). I think the main reason is the conversion of the Mom & Pop motels to condos. Can't blame the owners for cashing in on a good market, but most of those condos are empty most of the time. The average person that would take a family for a week at the lake has trouble finding a decent cottage on the lake for a reasonable price, so they come for three days instead of seven. Instead of eating out, they BBQ in, to save a buck or switch to the fast food places that never use to be "up the lake". Some people will say fine let them stay home, but the region's economy depends on strong tourism numbers. The lake's region has tried to expand its tourism by offering something for people year round such as Motorcylcle week during the dead weeks in early June, the summer sells itself, fall craft shows,folliage, winter skiing, snow mobiling,(if there is ice), ice fishing derby, dogsled races, spring fishing derby. All the events are rather fragile and depend on many sections of the economy, weather conditions, room availability, gas prices, and the law of diminishing returns. Just one man's thoughts.
Hockeypuck |
Rentals
Yesterday I was talking to a house rental agent and winter rentals are off. One of the problems is that people that have rented have bought a home during the low interest rate period and therefore there are less people renting. Many of the rental units have been converted to condos or torn down to be replaced by a McMansion therefore less turnover in the rentals. The price of the current rental units is too high for many. We have a need for lower rental prices for resident workers.
The seasonal rental units add more people because of having more turnover than owned units. This makes for less shoppers and people eating out. Add to all this a slow down in the economy and you get less traffic. Boating is only a small part of what brings people to the region. The more boats, big boats, new laws, etc only affect a part of the population. Although I love the water I have not used it as much this year because of other commitments.:( I will have to do my luncheon drives:laugh: I will try to leave the ALton dock intact. |
If families arrive in July or August, they get loud boats, treacherous waters, and outdated honky-tonk. If they change to June, they get Bike Week!
First-time visitors anticipate "On Golden Pond", and they aren't getting it. But they're starting to "get it" NOW. |
Have you noticed how the quality of computer games has been increasing near-exponentially?
Also their portability? Why would a kid go to Tarlton's Arcade to play some klunky dinosaur game when he / she can stay home and play on a PSP, x-box, or online, having a great time while doing so? I'd like to know how much time people vacationing at the lake spend online (kids and adults): I'd be willing to bet the answer is "Quite a bit." Computers, computer games: a perennial front-runner for "black hole." |
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Already booked my vacation for next year :) Doin' my part to keep the tourism dollars flowing. |
What I meant by new places was maybe they went to the cinema , funspot < which has been crowded>, and maybe drive in as well. There are alot of alternatives to the Weirs area that the locals could be going to. I hope this clarifies my post from last nite. :)
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hopefully, winni will never be "On Golden Pond". I like it just the way it is. |
I agree
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There was a lot less boat traffic when we were at the lake in June and then the first two weeks of August. The lake looked like a no wake zone in some respects. The owner of the Blue Jay Mini Golf (in Alton) told me what she told you. In fact, the night of the Alton Olde Home Day the mini-golf is usually packed. This year, though, my two boys breezed through (and one of them finally won a free game!). Jersey Girl |
Lower crowds
I guess it helps to be from Joisey. I hate it when there are no boats out and I can really crank the GTX on flat water. I went out on Monday the 14th of August but it seemed like September.
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This Joisey girl likes the lake when it is quiet. We live with too much hustle and crowds all the time. spent the first two weeks of August on Bear and did notice that the amount of people around was off from previous years. Boat traffic was light on the water and it was easier to get around in Meredith. Parking spots were ample and we did not experience the congestion.Didn 't even have to wait in line at Flurries for my JB Scoops.
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On being from Jersey
Hey, gotta love you other Jerseyans! I kind of missed the boat traffic. It just didn't quite seem like Lake Winnie without those boats at 2am. Really, not kidding. It didn't feel the same.
Jersey Girl |
hear's my cut on this topic
Here’s my take on the fewer crowds… Here’s an all to typical comment that was made to me the other day. We ventured over to Meredith to make the pilgrimage up the hill to Harts (always worth the hike), while at the docks I had a conversation with a middle-aged woman. Her first question was, “isn’t your boat too big for the this lake?” My reply was, “I guess you haven’t seen this lake.” Her response was, “why yes I have, we use to boat here all the time, but not any more”. Her next question was, “how do you deal with all the hundreds of thousands of boats out there and the crazies they bring, have you no concern for your well being or your crew?” To which my response was, “what are you talking about???” She said you know, with all the traffic out there and no speed limits, it’s virtual free for all and people getting killed every day. To which I just laughed and said, “you know how many boat we passed by to get here from Wolfe city???” “Seventeen and not one came anywhere near me” and that was one of the best days on the lake for a sailboat.
So here is the up shot: most people get their information from the media namely the TV where the story has been slanted to discourage boat traffic. They show pictures of the hot spots like the town docks or the Weirs channel to dramatize their story. When in reality most of the boats that parade through the channel, do so just so they can turn around to parade back through and has little to do with actual congestion due to over crowding. Who’s driving this media campaign? Well, in my mind, it’s the same people who keep telling the biggest boat that should be allowed on the lake is a 24 footer, which just so happens to be the size of the boat parked in their slip in front of their house. Looks like it’s done a pretty good job. Of course, the cost of fuel and the weather have also taken it’s toll as well. |
Minus 1 boat
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As a Red Sox fan I have learned to say there is always next year! |
Winnipesauke Divers observed, in part:
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While I agree that most folks these days unfortunately get the bulk of their news from TV, and that a good live shot when doing a story about the lake is to have boats in the background (therefore you set up at the Weirs or town docks) I want to point out that the bulk of the speed limit debate and all the negativity that it brought was covered by LOCAL NH media. In Boston virtually NOTHING was reported about it, it may have cracked the "news brief" section of the Herald and Globe a couple of times, I can't speak to how it was covered in Portland, but I didn't see anything about it on the National Media It was a LOCAL story! The only Winnipesaukee story that I recall seeing on Boston TV this year was the fire at Anchor Marine, and that only made Boston TV because Channel 5 and Channel 9 are owned by the same parent company and they had good video of the fire, otherwise it would not have been mentioned. Even the Eagle Island speedboat landing didn't make Boston TV. No, TV and the Media are not to blame for folks getting the idea that there are thousands of boats on Winni and none of them know how to boat and everyone travels at 70 MPH, the real culprit is the internet. Yep, forums like this one. Anyone anywhere can log on and read the debate over speed limits and some of it was, to say the least, over the top. You can still read the debate even though it is no longer active! This is certainly not the only site on the internet that presented that discussion and has archives. It's easy to blame "the media". People have been doing it for centuries, that's where the saying "don't kill the messenger" comes from, AND nothing has changed. Media is an easy target. But if you really want to look at how much and where the speed limit story got coverage, then the culprit isn't TV or newspapers because there was virtually no coverage outside of NH. The culprit for impressions of Lake Winnipesaukee and boating that the woman described by Winnipesaukee Divers has? The culprit is US. (Rant mode OFF) |
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Nope, not even close, don't lump me in with that, I'm sure many others will feel the same way. Some of the culprits may be on this forum, but don't blame the forum. I saw many news reports on 6 pm news in the Boston area about the speed limit and most of the reports portrayed the lake as the wild west during the lawless days........ |
Boston News
The news stories about boating on our lake and the speed limit debate was mentioned many times on various Boston TV news broadcasts. It characterized the lake as a dangerous place to be, loaded with boats going 70 or more MPH, all being operated by boaters with little regard for the safety of others. Nothing could have been further from the truth, but stories like this attract the attention of viewers and that is the news game!
Having boated in the ocean for many years prior to relocating my boating to Lake Winnipesaukee, I can assure everyone that the boating on our lake is very passive when compared to the boating in the Boston inner and outer harbors and most other harbors, rips and channels along the New England coast. As I watched the Boston news reports and the biased exposure they gave to the people pushing for the speed limit, I was very suprised that the Boston TV stations did not make some comparision to local coastal boating, using boaters that had experience in both waters. Then again, if they did, the whole story would have evaporated, as the story then would not attract the viewers or sell the news. How much effect this has had on the one-week vacationer is unknown to me. However, the traffic seems to be off considerably, and the value of the one-week vacationer to the local businesses is considerable. I believe this inaccurate news was and continues to be a significant contributor to the smaller number of vacationers this summer and I feel something has to be done to address the realities of boating on the lake and to help address this lost business. I boat out of the Weirs area in a slower bow rider, I own lake front property and I do not rent it, so smaller crowds are not a problem to me. I do feel badly for those people that work hard to make a living in the tourist industry and support the needs of those who spend time at the lake. R2B |
Yes but not empty
Here is proof there are still boats and people enjoying the lake. Wolfeboro on 8/12/2006. If you remember it was a bit windy that day but people still came to the docks.
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ITD & Resident2B
Interesting posts. Both of you said you saw the "lawless aspect" of Lake Winnipesaukee portrayed "MANY TIMES" in the Boston News Media. I am a member of the Boston News Media. I am curious to know when I mentioned Lake Winnipesaukee in one of my newscasts? I can tell you, can you tell me? Specifically when did I or any of my colleagues talk about or imply there was a "lawless aspect" to the lake? MANY TIMES? Easy to say. Since you say these things in such a strong manner I can only assume that you would be able to direct me to the stories that you object to? RE: What outlets and when? Again, easy to say and accuse "The Evil Media" (so far no one has accused the local media of overblowing the story) but the fact remains, the speed limit debate was a LOCAL issue and was not covered by Boston, New York, or National media. You might think the world revolves around Winnipesaukee, it does not. In the world of news, Winnipesaukee does not even appear on the map. It's a place I love, but the last time Winnipesaukee got any kind of real news media attention is when Vice President George HW Bush took a ride on the Mount Washington and then only because he was on the boat! This was an internet issue, period. Hard to admit, but yes it was the discussion on this forum and others like it that drew attention outside of the area to the issue of speed limits and GFBL Boats. As I said much of that discussion was over the top but it was OUR DISCUSSION that is to "blame". |
not the media
As a consumer of the Boston media in the non-summer months, I can say that I never once heard about the speed limit debate in the Boston-area TV, radio or print media. Maybe I missed the odd reference.
But yes, I did read some of the bickering threads about the topic on this forum. But that required knowing about the forum and actively searching for/reading news and comments about the proposed legislation. My guess is that only a tiny fraction of visitors to this area consult or even know about this forum. I can't imagine the bickering comments and references to lawlessness made much, if any, impact on the number of visitors this summer. Instead, I blame the low boat traffic on high gas prices, the wet, and recently cold, weather and the economy. Although we live on an island and must use our boat regularly for errands, etc. I would estimate that I used the boat about 2/3 less this summer than I did last year. At $3.35/gallon, my kids can live without weekly trips to Center Harbor for ice cream, Wolfeboro for lunch and all that tubing. And while I feel for all of you small business owners, the self-interested part of me really enjoyed the quiet lake this summer. |
Island Life;
I agree with you, I was responding to the conversation that Winnipesaukee Divers had with a woman he ran into whose perception was that Lake Winnipesaukee has "Hundreds of Thousands of boats" that travel "70 MPH" so she no longer wanted to boat on the lake, and Winnipesaukee Divers believed it was because of news media coverage. The impression of this woman is what I was addressing and when I said "we" are to "blame" I mean this forum and those like it, along with word of mouth. There are other internet forums that discuss boating and Winnipesaukee, so even beyond this site there are others that discuss the issue and/or link here. I believe you're right. My family's condo that I rented out this year was booked very quickly with only 2 weeks open. When the gasoline prices started going nuts I didn't even get phone calls for the two weeks. There are many different reasons for the drop in tourists this year, but for the family of 4, 5, or 6 that doesn't have a place up here and are looking at a couple of hundred miles drive (up and/or back) on top of everything else, yes I can conclude that gasoline prices were the major factor. It's like when there is snow in the north country, but it doesn't snow in Boston. Folks just don't go skiing. |
I think it's pretty simple. The economy has softened, interest rates are up, the job market is getting tougher with jobs being lost to lost abroad, cottage rental prices or motels rates are expensive and going up. Not to mention the gas prices going up which starts the inflationary spiral of increased prices for goods and services. This means less discretionary income, translated (at least for us) into less time on the lake.
In my family's case, between the high water on the lake until July and much higher gas prices, we have been up much less than last year. When we are on the water we have traveled much less on the lake and anchor more. :( |
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I have no idea who you are, so I have zero ability to answer your question regarding when you reported on the subject in any of your newscasts. If you can tell us when and what you reported on the subject as you suggest you can, please do. I also have no idea where your "lawless aspect" qoute comes from. What I heard and posted were comments about high speed and lack of concern for the safety of others. I did not use the phrase "lawless aspect". As to where I heard the remarks, that was a while ago and I did not take notes and/or record the channel, date, time and reporter. I do not think many people do this when watching the TV news, but I could be wrong. I know I do not take this kind of note, so I cannot answer this question either. I watch the Boston ABC outlet, the Boston Fox outlet and NECN. I do not exactly remember what outlet I saw the reports on, but I saw several reports during the winter. In my opinion, there was coverage in the Boston area that did not convey the boating conditions on the lake the way I believe they actually are. Most were sound bites from interviews of people with opinions on the subject. I do agree with you that forums like this excellent forum had an impact on the preceptions of people as well. My only point was the coverage in the Boston broadcast media was not completely accurate and impacted people's decisions regarding where to spend vacation time. I am also sure there are other factors such as gas cost and the weather. It all added up to a weak summer season. Regards, R2B |
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We came home from a weekend camping trip to Maine last night around 6:30 and it was 54 degrees and raining. The number of cars and people on Lakeside Ave looked more like a sunny Saturday in December then the last Sunday in August, but it was nice to haul the camper through without any trafic. |
Okay, since you can’t tell me when you saw these Boston TV reports that were “inaccurate” I did a Lexus Nexus search between January 1, 2005 and today. I used the name “Winnipesaukee” to search. Below is what the search turned up.
In addition there were 44 hits on Major Newspapers, none involved the speed limit debate. So, where are those distorted and inaccurate stories? When I searched for Winnipesaukee Speed Limits I got NO HITS As I said, this was a LOCAL story and if the perception is there are hundreds of thousands of boats doing 70MPH on Winni, it doesn't come from the regional media, it more likely comes from the internet and word of mouth. SHOW: Newscenter 5 At August 17, 2005, Wednesday 18:00-18:30 ET NETWORK: WCVB-TV MEDIUM: Television TYPE: Local TV LENGTH: 139 words BODY: START: 00:13:25 Teased Segment - Real Estate; Real estate values soar at Lake Winnipesaukee. SHOW: The News At August 11, 2005, Thursday 21:00-22:00 ET NETWORK: NECN MEDIUM: Cable TYPE: Local Cable LENGTH: 120 words BODY: START: 00:41:29 Teased Segment - Lake Changes; Some residents along Lake Winnipesaukee are apprehensive about MA Governor Mitt Romney possible run for the White House, in terms of how it will effect their community. SHOW: Fox 25 Morning News August 11, 2005, Thursday 07:00-08:00 ET NETWORK: WFXT-TV MEDIUM: Television TYPE: Local TV LENGTH: 26 words BODY: START: 00:07:05 Toddler Drowns; Toddler Drowns at Lake Winnipesaukee in NH. SHOW: Fox 25 Morning News August 11, 2005, Thursday 08:00-09:00 ET NETWORK: WFXT-TV MEDIUM: Television TYPE: Local TV LENGTH: 26 words BODY: START: 00:08:32 Toddler Drowns; Toddler Drowns at Lake Winnipesaukee in NH. SHOW: Newscenter 5 Eyeopener July 29, 2005, Friday 05:00-06:00 ET NETWORK: WCVB-TV MEDIUM: Television TYPE: Local TV LENGTH: 94 words BODY: START: 00:10:58 Teased Segment - Governor Romney's home; Residents of Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire say they feel violated by Governor Romney and his massive water front property there. NEW YORK TIMES January 20, 2005 Thursday SECTION: Section A; Column 2; Pg. 20 LENGTH: 10 words HEADLINE: a day for fishing and football hopes BODY: Photo of ice fisherman on Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire. SHOW: CBS 4 News January 10, 2005, Monday 05:00-06:00 ET NETWORK: WBZ-TV MEDIUM: Television TYPE: Local TV LENGTH: 27 words BODY: START: 00:05:47 Snowmobile Accident; Reader - Two people were killed in a snowmobile accident over the weekend at Lake Winnipesaukee. :LR SHOW: CBS 4 News January 10, 2005, Monday 05:00-06:00 ET NETWORK: WBZ-TV MEDIUM: Television TYPE: Local TV LENGTH: 17 words BODY: START: 00:39:08 Snowmobile Accident; Recap. Keywords; Lake Winnipesaukee. :LR SHOW: CBS 4 News January 10, 2005, Monday 06:00-07:00 ET NETWORK: WBZ-TV MEDIUM: Television TYPE: Local TV LENGTH: 30 words BODY: START: 00:04:10 Snowmobile Accidents; There were two snowmobile accidents over the weekend where two people died in NH. SHOW: Fox 25 Morning News January 10, 2005, Monday 06:00-07:00 ET NETWORK: WFXT-TV MEDIUM: Television TYPE: Local TV LENGTH: 23 words BODY: START: 00:33:02 Deadly Accident; Deadly Accident Reported in Lake Winnipesaukee, NH. SHOW: The Morning News January 10, 2005, Monday 07:00-08:00 ET NETWORK: WSBK-TV MEDIUM: Television TYPE: Local TV LENGTH: 23 words BODY: START: 00:04:31 Snowmobile Accident; Two snowmobilers from MA was killed over the weekend in Lake Winnipesaukee. :LR SHOW: The 10PM News January 9, 2005, Sunday 22:00-22:30 ET NETWORK: WSBK-TV MEDIUM: Television TYPE: Local TV LENGTH: 41 words BODY: START: 00:02:12 Snowmobile Accident; Another MA man killed in a snowmobile accident in Lake Winnipesaukee in NH. |
I just finished another refined search using the term "Winnipesaukee Speed Limits". I got 48 hits from newspapers. 31 of those were newspapers in NH, 15 stories were from the NH Associated Press, 1 from the NY Times and 1 from the Worcester Telegram and Gazette.
The AP stories are distributed to news organizations throughout the region but it is up to the individual newspaper TV or radio station to use it or not. So, as I said, this was a Local media issue. |
Airwaves
You blame Internet conciousness-raising for Winnipesaukee's lower crowds, but you wrote that the culprit was US. Wasn't the culprit Littlefield? I'd like to see that search. |
I did a search from 8/1/02 to today, I got 72 hits using the key words "Littlefield" and "Winnipesaukee"
41 articles were in NH papers 28 articles were by NH Associated Press 1 article appeared in the Boston Herald 1 article appeared in the Boston Globe 1 article appeared in the Portland Herald. |
ridiculous
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Winni has so much to offer those who enjoy being with other people, sightseeing, boating, people watching and plain old relaxing. Why get bent out of shape because tourists like to be here. Whether they have a fast or slow boat.... there will always be ignorant people.... there will always be a danger factor in any type of boating or swimming. Period. If I no longer enjoy the lake at some point, I will simply find some place that I do enjoy. Spending time in Pity Park and being Pissy about the changes in life will get you no where but cranky and depressed ... REAL fast. Change happens and you really just need to go with it or find something that makes you happy! OH... and the only time I have had issue's with less than educated boaters and potentially endangering me or themselves..... it was NEVER a GFBL boat. AND my boat tops out at 40mph. |
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That said, I think it's ludicrous to think that the internet has much to do with poor tourism when we've had such an awful Spring/early Summer and such a cold August during a general economic downturn nationwide. |
I just hope the people who are complainiing about the lesser crowds aren't the same ones who complained ABOUT the crowds although it wouldn't suprize me as some people are never satisfied:rolleye2:.
Quite a few of my last visits have been on a Mon/Fri basis since the weekends were getting rather crazy. I do enjoy being able to dock at town docks anytime like during the week with out the wait and some of the idiots in rentals who don't know what they're doing. For me , this season , yes it was economic. $2000 for a week at the lake will buy me a lot of gas locally. It amounts to 10 weekends on the Chesapeake , which BTW aside from water clarity isn't a whole lot different from the lake with its places to go and things to do. I never realized you people would miss me so much:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: |
NH is changing
Monday morning, I heard a report on NH public radio while driving home from the lake. It mentioned that NH is losing a lot of its young people because house prices were up, job opportunities were down, and night life for singles was sparse. What a change 25 years makes!
In the early 80's, high-tech jobs were plentiful in southern NH, land and houses were easy to find and priced right - especially for those on high-tech salaries. Night life was never a NH strong point, but the quality of life seemed to suit young adults - and they moved to NH in droves. That is when I found Lake Winnipesaukee. It had very clean water, and lots of undeveloped shoreline where one could "raft" and enjoy a day in the sun. History is full of cycles. Today, high-tech jobs (or good jobs in general for that matter) are hard to find in NH, housing prices are out of sight and much of the available building land has wetlands involved. Night-life (at least in the Nashua, Manchester, Portsmouth, Concord quadrant) is much improved (although nothing like Boston). Perhaps part of the problem is a change in the appreciation of nature, along with the condition of nature. While the lake is still wonderful, the over building, weekend overcrowding, and recent floods means that it takes more effort to enjoy it. Is today's "20 something" generation willing to put in the extra effort it takes to enjoy nature - or are they more interested in social interaction in clubs or on the internet? Gas prices, over regulation, virus laden bugs and abnormal weather patterns are not helping the lakes region sustain its level of activity - but how much impact are we seeing from the changes in choices made by the next generation of young adults? Is this a 10+ year trend or just an abnormal blip? |
Personally I don't think "20 somethings" were ever more willing to move into the lakes region than today. Even when the lakes region had a "night life" it really didn't have a night life. People who like hunting, fishing, etc were always willing to move "up north" those who don't wouldn't.
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I think there's a drastic diffrence between southern NH (Concord and south) and the lakes region on north (we used to joke that anything south of Bow was part of Mass anyway). I don't think a lot of 20 somethings looking for a tech job and nightlife would be anywhere north of Concord, and any 20 something looking for a quieter life would be south of there. Now, there may be a connection between the southern part of the state loosing 20 somethings and the crowds here being down this summer.
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My contention is that the internet played a much larger role than anything the Boston media did or didn't do as far as creating the perception. As far as the drop off in tourism this year, The day trippers were effected by the weather, longer term renters were cautious because of the economy. It doens't get much simpler. I also agree that 20 somethings are less likely to look toward the Lakes Region to settle. Perhaps this downturn in the economy will cool things off for a while. While it will be bad for the pocketbooks it might be a good thing in the long run. BTW I never understood families that bought homes in Southern NH and worked in Mass, they end up with a double wammy! High NH property taxes AND paying Massachusetts income tax! |
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When I was a 20 something, we bought a house in southern NH for half what we would have paid in Northern MA where I work. That half price goes a long way toward paying higher property taxes AND my drive to the lake is <1 hour. It was not a concious decision to pay more taxes, it was a decision to have more house for less money. No regrets. |
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Just ANOTHER Mass TAXPAYER that is NOT allowed to VOTE! |
Airwaves your creditability just went into the toilet
If you can't even get my story straight when it printed out right in front of you, how do you expect these fine folks here on the forum to have any respect for anything you say from now on? Actually, I though you were making a pretty good case even though you were extrapolating the facts a little far, but then you went and stuck your foot right in your mouth.
Good thing Don put the "edit" button on the bottom of the page... Perhaps you should re-read my post then go back to your last post and make the corrections. Looks like you’re a little touchy about the media, wonder why that is? BTW: What size boat did you say you had??? |
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