Kawishiwi...

Its the weight/mass of the object that causes the wave energy.... a 35' cruiser could weigh up to 20,000lbs...

My guess is you crossed paths with a 20,000lb underpowered brick...

Woodsy

My 37' Egg Harbor weighed 40,000 lbs. It did not throw a big wake on plane, then one can always utilize the trim tabs to raise or lower the bow.

------------------------------------------------------

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

Assuming 33 feet at the water line, anything over 5.85 MPH (two thirds of hull speed) will typically create some white water (breaking waves).

Try it out in your boat. Just plug the water line length into my original equation:

(HS = 1.34 x √LWL)

Then take the result and multiply it by .77 to get two thirds hull speed in MPH. If you have GPS, see how your wake looks at that speed, under that speed and above that speed.

The magic speed for my boat is 4.88 MPH, when I'm really trying not to make a wake, I keep it below 5 MPH and have never heard a word from anyone about my wake. When I'm in a silly-big NWZ, (like Meredith, or the one on the Potomac River by Alexandria), I run at 6ish MPH until I'm 150 feet from docks.

All this no wake complaining is quite entertaining. You should have spent the weekend sitting at my place. Huge, breaking waves slamming into the shoreline all weekend long, caused by all kinds of vessels, going all different speeds. I knew it going in when I bought the place, but the waves keep getting bigger and bigger. If a child or pet is in the water when some of these waves come ashore, there would be potential for serious injury.

So for you poor people that live in no-wake zones that are complaining about small ripples and white froth coming from boats, come on over and see how green the grass is on the other side of the fence!

And for those who don't think these boat waves cause substantial shoreline erosion, please feel free to PM me and I will extend a personal invitation for you to come see for yourself (and I will supply the beer!).

Deleted due to YouTube problem...sorry

Not too long ago i heard Mike Baxter say to his wife, "Gee, I was afraid our relationship was devolving into meaningless banter". Does art imitate life?

Hillcountry...

Thanks for taking the time to post the videos! I see no issues with your 6MPH wake.... kind of amazing how big it gets at 10MPH.

Woodsy

Yes...other than all that “white foamy stuff” which a MP officer may or may not approve of! I don’t go anywhere near that fast in a NWZ...even at 4:30 am coming out of the channel.
On a side note, returning from fishing around 11am we witnessed 2 boats in a row blasting between Eagle and Governor’s on full plane...:(

Alert
 

The cruiser that threw a big wake at me Sunday was far enough away that I didnt really consider what it could throw. The only reason I was able to adjust was that the wake started breaking 80 ft away from me so that I heard it coming.

This thread is giving me a popsicle headache!!! When it comes time for me to enter a no wake zone, I utilize the "kiss" method. Since I don't have a gps on board, and my speedometer doesn't move till you are doing about 10 or 15, I have figured out EXACTLY what rpm's my boat makes NO wake at, (1200) and that's where I put it every time. 1200 rpm's - no wake, no looking back, no white, no foam, no yelling, no problem, and I have NO idea how fast I'm going. Doesn't matter... Keep it simple, stupid. Amazing how "things" get so complicated...

Well, you are right. Speed doesn't matter, the wake you are making is what matters!!

That's a really good approach if you don't an accurate way to measure speed.

I saw them before they were deleted. That hull speed equation is only for mono-hull boats, multi-hull boats like yours are not the same because of the way the bow waves interact between the hulls. My 25 foot mono-hull makes a huge wake at 10 MPH. You can see it in the link below, taken on the Champlain Canal, where the speed limit is 10 ans there's no safe passage law. Bear in mind too, that the close confines and shallow water also increase the wake intensity.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...4&l=bb72d1767b

I have a 22' 24 rise mono hull. I can do the same, maybe more at 10 mph. At idle, my boat is going 6.2 GPS mph in no wind or current situation, yet I create enough of a ripple to actually have an LEO telling me to slow down!
At this speed the boat wanders left and right as there are no chines.
When passing through the channel a decade ago, an LEO pulled me over for 3 things: Shifting in and out (because the traffic is slower than idle speed), wandering left and right, and a wake he feels was too high!
After a safety, registration and sobriety check, he let me off with a warning and a note to my boat mechanic to fix the boat! WTH!

boring
 

Seems like we have this exact same discussion every couple of years with the threads having all the same arguments. I'm not linking to the old thread because i don't want to revive them, but clearly there is confusion so the law must be "confusing" and needs to be re-written. Of course, there will always be those that are ignorant of the law no matter how clear it could be written. So, there will be waves, there will be idiots, and hopefully we can just relax and have another beer and enjoy the show.

To me it always comes down to common sense and respect for the shore line and other people's property. I do not think the law is confusing at all many looks for ways around the law, but for what... to go 8 mph instead of 6. Your not getting where you need to go that much faster. Relax and enjoy your on the lake :)

Speaking of "White"...?
 

When a cruiser passed by at top speed Monday, I was thinking that his wake shouldn't be too bad.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f91/18/11/38/95/fullsc13.jpg

"Education" tells us that plowing produces more wake—which can also be attributed to "trim"—an equivalent affront to shorelines.

Even a quarter-mile away, his wake came crashing down on our shoreline. "Surf's Up!"

https://i.servimg.com/u/f91/18/11/38/95/fullsc12.jpg

It's a good thing we're not at Spring's highest water level, or more silt would be severely eroded from shore—all the way to Meredith!

.

Wow..that wave must have wiped out all the homes on that shore line.
My heart goes out to all the owners of these homes that this wave totally destroyed.

Always with the sarcasm. Why? He is just pointing out that larger wakes can cause erosion.

Law is CLEAR... not confusing at all!
 

NH RSA Section 270-D:1 - Definitions

I. "Boat" means every description of watercraft other than seaplanes, capable of being used or used as a means of transportation on the water and which is primarily used for noncommercial purposes, or leased, rented, loaned or chartered to another for such use.

VI. "Headway speed" means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

VIII. "No wake area" means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed.

Headway speed is defined as 6MPH... so you can legally go up to 6MPH in a NWZ. The clause "or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way." is there for when the conditions are such that you have to EXCEED 6MPH... due to current, tide, etc...

This is not Rocket Science!

Woodsy

Very often on the ICW in Florida we meet up with 80' to 100" boats traveling at 10 to 20 mph. Some of them throw up wakes over 4' that can really cause problems if you don't handle them right. I have seen times in a narrow channel that I've actually done a 180 and fled to avoid a huge wake.
I cross them at a 45 degree angle....if you drive straight into them you're likely to bury your bow in the trough.
Wasn't much of a problem on our lakes until the wakeboard boats showed up. Some of them produce the kind of wakes that BearIslander was talking about. Actually can be dangerous. I have nothing against them, just saying that everyone is responsible for their wake and operators should be considerate.

Obviously, you interpret the law your way and others, another way.
Like others have said...what’s the damned hurry?
Your logic is flawed but you can’t see it. So be it!

Hillcountry...

Actually, my logic is not flawed at all.... It is not my fault you don't understand the law or its intent. Unfortunately it is your reasoning/logic that is wrong. But please feel free to consult a lawyer... I did!

Let me explain.....

A law has to be well defined and absolute it cannot be subjective. So, if you look at the RSA that defines what "Headway Speed" is, there is number that defines "Headway Speed"... 6MPH. (its not just there for no reason) So just like every other type of speed limit there is a number clearly defined by law! (so the MP can write you a ticket) The clause "or or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way." is designed so that you can EXCEED 6MPH if the conditions warrant it (tides/currents etc). EX: Weirs Channel during the spring runoff and the Lakeport Dam is wide open. IF you are going with the current of say 5MPH... you need to go faster than 5MPH to maintain steerage of your boat, otherwise your stern gets pushed sideways. IF you are going against the current, you have to go faster than 5MPH to overcome the current and move forward thru the channel. Going with the current produces little or no wake even though you are actually going thru the channel at close to 10MPH... going against the current produces a HUGE wake even though you are only moving thru the channel at 5MPH!

Woodsy

Ignore my comments if it bothers you that much.

APS and I go back a long way, he can pretty much defend himself.

Have a good day & don't let me bother you so much. :D

I can say the same thing!!!

I agree with Woodsy. The law was rewritten not so many years ago to cover the high speed of the current/tide in areas of the seacoast. It was not written just for Lake Winnipesaukee, or Opeechee, etc.
On a windy day as you come out from the Weirs bridge, headed north, you often have to increase throttle (not speed) to maintain steerage. Same applies northbound coming out from under the Governor's Island Bridge. However, again on a windy day, the wind is such that your wake is broken up into the wind driven waves and is not noticeable.

I understand what you are saying. Differing opinions is all...
My point is this: Just because “the law” says you can go 6 mph doesn’t mean you should. The channel has a fast current in very early season when they’re letting the lake come to it’s Spring level. Very few boaters are out when this condition is prevalent save a few early fishermen and work boats perhaps.
There are most likely, very few boats in slips at this time and most marinas are just getting ready for the upcoming season. My marina doesn’t even valet until mid-May...long after the current has settled down.
My main concern is during the boating season 6mph is overkill for traversing a NWZ. That’s it! That’s all I care about. My video plainly, showed that although the wake thrown by my toon was minimal, the speed and prop wash would be significant overkill for a NWZ. Common courtesy to all dictates a much slower headway speed.

It's crystal clear to me Woodsy. I think the hang-up is that people interpret this in a way that they think if you can maintain steerage at any speed slower than 6mph, then that's the speed you're supposed to go. In other words, if you can maintain steerage and control of the vessel at 1mph, then they believe that's the law. But I do not believe that this is the intent or spirit of the law.

Confusing??
 

It should be as simple as, no wake means no waves. If you are in a no wake zone and you are making waves, then you are breaking the law.

Waaaay back when I went to a USCG Auxiliary course as a kid I remember being taught that the captain is responsible for his vessel’s wake.

Is that on the books as a law in NH?

Hillcounty...

First, you are making excuses (not many boaters) because you are thinking this only applies to Winni... this happens every day at the mouth of Piscataqua and other places. This why the law is written the way it is.

Second.. You have people here whining about boats in a NWZ that are probably not breaking ANY laws whatsoever. The law is clear and people should really have an understanding of the law before they go bitching about it.

Third.. Every boat idles in gear at a different speed... (also another reason for a 6MPH limit) so while you might think 6MPH is excessive, because YOUR pontoon boat idles nicely at 3MPH, somebody behind you in the NWZ might think 3MPH is too slow because they idle 5MPH. So what? No big deal right? They are constantly shifting in and out of gear, struggling to maintain steerage. I won't get into the boat traffic backup a single boat going 2-3MPH in the Weirs Channel can cause on a busy weekend.

So while I do believe in common courtesy & respect... that goes both ways! If nobody is behind you go as slow as you want. If there are others behind you go pick up the pace a little. (don't exceed 6MPH) What speed dead slow is for your boat, might not be the same for the poor guy behind you.

Woodsy

That doesn't work.... every boat has a different speed where it makes a noticeable wake, it is also very subjective and would likely not hold up in court. See my explanation above


Woodsy

Oh come on...! The mouths of rivers where they meet the ocean tides are dangerous and hazardous waterways...anyone who has navigated the mouth of the Merrimac River knows this! Oranges and apples to our little, placid in comparison, Winnipesaukee!

I am aware of people struggling both astern and ahead of me and I adjust accordingly.

Obviously, you interpret the law your way and others, another way.
Like others have said...what’s the damned hurry?
Your logic is flawed but you can’t see it. So be it! ( Quote was from Hllcountry.)

I couldn't thank you for this, because I had used up my thanks. But you are right. Woodsy for some reason just can't understand that NO WAKE means no wake. He says he has talked to a lawyer, I wonder why he doesn't talk to Marine Patrol and see what they say. Because of all these discussions that keep coming up, I DID talk to Capt. Dunleavey and he said No Wake is no wake not a certain speed. The law was basically written including the 6 MPH limit for the ocean where there are currents and it is necessary to go 6 MPH. He said they have been challenged and gone to court and the judge upholds the officers and the tickets stand. In the past I have seen MPs stop people for a wake that surprised me that they would be stopped for. So what do you say, Woodsy, how about talking to the Capt.? Or would you still not believe?

Why the hurry?
 

I am always wondering . . . Where the hell are you going in such a rush?

Boating on the Big Lake is meant to be enjoyable for ALL. Slow down when asked to do so the extra 2 minutes may just give you a chance to take in the scenery and relax. :coolsm:

Yes... but the LAW applies to both!

Now for some hard numbers.... the Weirs Channel is approx 3/4 mile long (3960ft) Look at these transit times...

@ 2MPH = 22.5 mins
@ 3MPH = 15 mins
@ 4MPH = 11.25 mins
@ 5MPH = 9 mins

The difference between 3MPH & 5 MPH is only 6 mins. No big deal right? Now add more & more boats piling up behind, having to stop & shift in and out of gear like every other traffic jam... and it quickly becomes a SNAFU. Just like when a slow car is in the right lane on the highway.

Woodsy

Amen!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I don’t think you understand him. He’s saying it is not the speed, it’s the wake wave. If you are making a wake, slow down. Your boat won’t make a wake at idle no matter what speed that is. You’re apparently saying you don’t care the repercussions, you’re going to go the maximum speed allowed by law.

Sounds like it must be all about you. Sad way to go thru life.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Bigguy...


This is where you are wrong.... different hull designs throw wakes at different speeds. Also, at dead slow, different boats travel at different speeds. I had a Donzi 22 that idled at 7.5MPH and threw a wake doing so.

So while HillCountry can idle thru the Weirs Channel at 3MPH in his pontoon, the guy behind him idles at 4.5MPH. The guy behind him idles at 5MPH. So what you end up with is a traffic jam as the 2 guys behind HillCountry shift in and out of gear trying to hold position in winds and currents.

That being said... There is ALWAYS a wake when you push an object thru the water. ALWAYS. It just depends if it is visible or not, and then if it is visible, how big is it? But now you are crossing into opinion and subjectivity. The only way to truly control this is to use speed as it is an absolute. You are going to fast, or you are not going to fast... black & white.

In the NH RSA's... the 1st State law clearly defines "Headway Speed" as 6MPH. The law does not differentiate between Lake or Ocean. It is no different than the 70MPH highway speed limit or the 45 MPH daytime speed limit on the lake. Exceed the speed limit, possibly get a ticket. However, the State also realized that in some instances on the water you would need to EXCEED the 6MPH and they wrote a provision for that.

The State then defines a "No Wake Zone" as an area where you are required to go "Headway Speed". Given that "Headway Speed" is clearly defined as 6MPH... you are allowed up to 6MPH in a "No Wake Zone".

It is very simple! I am not saying anyone HAS to go 6MPH... I am just saying you are ALLOWED to go 6MPH.

Now if the State would just relabel the NWZ's to Headway Speed Zones... the confusion would be gone.

Woodsy