Are you seriously comparing a canal and a large lake WRT the need for speed limits?

Just between you, me, and the very small number of the 424 NH legislators who may read this forum, I think the new community sailing facility for local kids-n-adults, that going up at Ellacoya State Park will carry more positive weight for the need for a speed limit than 100 people commenting about the technical aspects of the 150' foot rule.

As you may or may not know, the New Hampshire Dept of Parks & Recreation is on-board with the Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association, www.lwsa.org, to build a one million dollar plus, community sailing facility on a lightly used end of the beautifull beach at Ellacoya State Park. It is scheduled to open in the summer of 2009.
.............................

Want to help pay for the new community sailing facility with a tax deductible contribution? Go to www.lwsa.org and look around....at the donation link....at the photos....or go to the 'building Winni Sailing' thread in the nearby boating section and read all about it including a lengthy news article from the Laconia Daily Sun..

Happy and safe sailing & motorboating to eveyone in 2008. and please dig deep to help pay for the new community sailing facility that's opening in 2009!!
...................

...and now, it's back to the technical arguments....kersplash....pow.....& cowabunga!

Concord Monitor, BoaterEd, Soundings...
 

It was not "a direct hit". Any change in vectoring of those 4½ tons would have been safe.

Like our most famous case? :rolleye1:

The "Need for Speed" is enhanced in tight quarters (and alcohol); however, a photograph of Long Lake could be mistaken for hundreds of stretches on Lake Winnipesaukee, and the manufacturer said their own killer-boat was too powerful for the lake!

Okaaay...let's go back to the previous summer, where five died without speed limits—and no alcohol.

The above case mentions the use of GPS. Has the "Need for Speed" crowd ever mentioned GPS as an emerging factor in the frequent violations of Winnipesaukee's "safe-passage" rule?

BoaterEd's Les Hall spoke to this collision:

Don't forget that between 100-130-MPH, I have many more hours (than most) on a closed race course. Also, I go boating 12 months a year.(And get to view other boaters from three different locales).

Soundings magazine is my boat-savvy reading, who recount the awful effects of speed, alcohol, money, ignorance and overpowered boats every month.

And this "isn't just about me" being a proponent: the entire editorial staff of the Concord Monitor has come on board today.

http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dl...1027/OPINION01

(2nd paragraph from the bottom).

How could we support them ???

LWSA/WYC events are typically mixed-fleet, handicapped (PHRF) races with round-the-islands courses and are held on weekends. There are usually both racing (spinnaker) and cruising (non-spinnaker) divisions. In addition to the mixed-fleet race events, there is J/80 one-design class racing every Thursday evening during the summer - details here.

We welcome anyone who wants to participate - if you are inexperienced at racing but would like to learn,

I fearing for my life they're going to be racing!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

Cum'on , get off it , will ya! First off , the BOAT and its HORSEPOWER had NOTHING to do with it. A 35 foot 300 hp CRUISER could have done the same thing since the ESTIMATED speed was ONLY 28 MPH. (Wide open for the cruiser)
One change in decision , anytime that evening , by either boater , could have made a world of difference!
Even if Littlefield had stayed and had ONE MOOOOORE drink , he wouldn't have been at that place and time that the accident took place. If he had been doing 45 mph , he would have been past the point of impact before the victims boat got there.
Rediculous senarios , yes , but factually TRUE...more true than "the boat had too much power for the lake" , because again and for the last time The Power Had Nothing to Do With It
Now let me rest my bruised finger tips (from POUNDING the keyboard) and go get some lunch:rolleye1:

Not for nothin but 45 in a small boat is alot more fun then 90 in a bigger boat. You go for it skippa, rules are made to be broken right.The lake just isn't what it used to be.

Cultists
 

Wow you mean the unlight at night kayak. How fast was that boat going ? How would the speed limit have saved them ? I mean certainly any speed limit would have to take into account the possibility of incompetent kayakers out at night w/o lights .... The max speed limit should be set to make them safe .... right ?

I would suggest we look as far as the lakes go ... here in NH. You see we have now many years of experience to inform us what to do in NH. Or is it your contention that experience here in NH doesn't inform us enough about what happens in NH to allow a reasonable decision ?

And again how does that apply to here in NH ? What says that such a law would have prevented the incident you mention. We have many DUI laws on the books and yet we have DUI "accidents". Where's our double-fatality attributable to a power boat ? And shouldn't it be attributable be to speed in excess of the proposed limit ?


Long Lake at 11 miles long and maybe 1.5 wide, isn't Winnipesaukee.

Funny thing when I boat on Winni the irritation, anxiety and anarchy come from the boneheads who don't understand or follow the boating rules I knew as a kid. Sometimes these boneheads are at the helm of the boats you so dislike but overwhelmingly they're at the helms of the average family boat.

I don't know what cult they belong to ... The Bonehead Brigade ?


I have empathy for the victims and scorn for the perpetrators. I just don't lump everyone who has a "gofast" into a cult. This is [comment pre-emptively deleted so as not to violate forum decorum].

More Rhetoric, but with Pictures!
 

(My responses in blue)

Mee&Mac: Wow you mean the unlight at night kayak. How fast was that boat going ?

Fast enough to become a killer—and to make three kayaks out of two.

Mee&Mac: How would the speed limit have saved them?

On water or land, speed limits aren't absolute: if it's raining, windy, foggy, crowded, misty, shallow, narrow, or moonless, the captain must still maintain a proper watch. What else could the "proper" in "proper watch" mean?

Where I've just moved to, about 1 in 10 powerboats pass by at night—illegally—without lights. (I'll find out why, but I think it relates to commercial fishing.)

Mee&Mac: I mean certainly any speed limit would have to take into account the possibility of incompetent kayakers out at night w/o lights .... The max speed limit should be set to make them safe .... right?

Whatever speed limit is voted for, I still couldn't feel vindicated if I'd killed one or both kayakers—but that's just me.

Mee&Mac: You see we have now many years of experience to inform us what to do in NH. Or is it your contention that experience here in NH doesn't inform us enough about what happens in NH to allow a reasonable decision?

Lake Winnipesaukee has been featured in movies with Smith Mountain Lake used as Winnipesaukee.

Smith Mountain Lake recorded "a double-fatality" last year, with the same cult responsible. We only have about ten years of widespread, grossly irresponsible, actions on Winnipesaukee; plus, the Big Lake only has a summer season—plus, "Noise and Action" is mostly on weekends. Offshore, the speed hazard to other boaters is minimal. Even then, Soundings magazine writes this month:

Quote:

"...I could keep going on with the horror stories, but we all the the message. The number of people on the water who are lacking even the most basic boating skills and knowledge is staggering. We have a problem..." —Tom Neale

Now, how many of the speed cult have any "skill and knowledge" in boat control at speeds over 45? Over 65? Or double that—at 130? (One-hundred-thirty MPH being a speed already seen on Winnipesaukee in recent seasons).


Mee&Mac: And again how does that apply to here in NH ? What says that such a law would have prevented the incident you mention. We have many DUI laws on the books and yet we have DUI "accidents".

A prohibition of alcohol aboard boats won't happen; add to that overpowered, overweight boats with something-to-prove-drivers—and there's a problem.

Mee&Mac: Long Lake at 11 miles long and maybe 1.5 wide, isn't Winnipesaukee.

OK, which is Lake Winnipesaukee—and which is Long Lake?


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...C10327879.jpeg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...ture%2B017.jpg

Mee&Mac: Funny thing when I boat on Winni the irritation, anxiety and anarchy come from the boneheads who don't understand or follow the boating rules I knew as a kid. Sometimes these boneheads are at the helm of the boats you so dislike but overwhelmingly they're at the helms of the average family boat.

There are probably average family boaters that don't know when they're in harm's way: the boaters that do know, support 45/25.

BTW, I have a screen-capture of ARG's last poll showing 76% of NH's polled, support the new law. Anyone with objections to publishing it here?

This is [comment pre-emptively deleted so as not to violate forum decorum].

Take Courage! The speed-cult is mailing their protests from Hawaii, across the nation—and from Sweden—to New Hampshire Representatives as we speak.

Oops...Don't take Courage—that's a British beer! :p

Mee&Mac: I don't know what cult they belong to ... The Bonehead Brigade?

Here, most readers don't profess this level of personal...um...um...um...paucity of cognition.

The MPs certainly seem to know where to look and, annoyingly, stake out NASWA. (That's just one lakeside locale where alcohol is served to boat captains having overpowered, overweight boats).

BWI-arrests are rare on Winnipesaukee. A speed limit would target the most dangerous BWI-perps, IMHO.

Mee&Mac: I have empathy for the victims and scorn for the perpetrators. I just don't lump everyone who has a "gofast" into a cult.

I'm not sensing "the empathy" for the two night-kayaking visitors. In their neighboring state, there may not be the same lighting requirement as New Hampshire's. (I'd find it very difficult to paddle while holding a lantern over my head in NH—but that's just me.)

As to "cult", there's this guy near me—with a Formula bearing the name "A Salt — Battery". (Formula doesn't make a "Dominator", "Eliminator", "Bandit", or "Outlaw" model.)

What's the message supposed to be, to supporters of a speed limit?

I see a cult proud of its "Outlaw" image—but maybe it's just me....:confused:

No to get too nitpicky but right off the but that boat looks like a Fountain Team Fishing to me, not a Formula. Fountain does make an "Executioner"... :laugh:

I'll let Mee&Mac fire back first on the rest.

To quote President Reagan "There you go again"

No one was killed or even injured in the kayak incident. You are making things up.

Further, now you are saying that the boat captain must be responsible enough to adjust his speed to the conditions. He must do this to maintain a proper watch. Since this is clearly true, why do we need a new law? Can't we just arrest and/or fine the people who operate dangerously and don't keep a proper watch?

BTW what is the safe speed for a powerboat of any size or shape to operate, such that they can avoid unlit craft? Can you give me a number or are you going to tell me it depends on the conditions? Do you sense a theme here?

I'm still trying to find out who went 130 mph and when and where???

and long lake is the pic on top but to be certain I would need to enlarge them and bit more??? I don't know of any obstuctions on the east side of the lake that look like that.... how ever looking at it again these pics where not taken with the same lens or Zoom factor the bottom one has a much higher detail to it so it was taken closer up giving the impression that the rocks are out further.....Kinda a smoke and mirrors thing????

Law Makers
 

I sent a mass email to State Reps regarding my position on HB847. I received about a dozen emails back. Every single one of them opposes the speed limit. I spoke to my local Rep last night. She (a Dem) is for a speed limit. Of course she does not own a boat.

I also had a great response from reps. Seems the tide is turning again. I think it is since they (read winnfabs) changed the bill (AGAIN) and made it a Winnipesaukee only bill. People in other communities in NH have called their reps and let them know that they are afraid.....there is that word again? That the performance boats will come to their beloved lake. Which isn't far fetched, I know several hot rod pwc owners who were discussing that a speed limit on winni, would give them the impetus to visit other lakes such as Winnisquam, Newfound, and Sunapee. So look out peaceful lakes....Here comes the Horsepower!!! Send thank you cards to Winnfabs!:D

to think that people would load their boats on a trailer and bring them to another lake.... I think ....Is Foolish.... Most of the boats you want to condemn are tied to a dock and never leave the lake. I don't see people buying a truck and some a trailer to haul them....Most of the other lakes don't have the amenities that boaters are looking for ( I can hear it now) LIKE A DECENT BOAT RAMP or PARKING....probably shouldn't go there since I can't find out where the $5 from all boat Reg's for ramp maintenance is going??...no restaurants, no place to anchor ( rafting laws), so Unless they are going to go there and run there boats back and forth on the lake what else are they going to do???

I'm sorry do you have to find a rest room???

I'm gonna guess the bottom picture is Long Lake, the tiny size of the photos makes it tough though. There's no big mountains visible from Long Lake and the top photo looks like it has mountains. 'Course, could be a trick and neither photo is Winnipesaukee or Long Lake.

Long Lake is remarkably similar to Alton Bay and Meredith Bay (except it's kinda shallow at 45 feet max depth, if memory serves), if you connected them end to end. Both of those bays are proven to be safely navigated by vessels at least as large as 220 feet and/or capable of speeds in excess of 100 MPH. Both also connect to much broader sections of the lake, some parts of which are nearly as wide open as Sebago Lake, which happens to be directly connected to Long Lake via the Songo River. You can't think of Long Lake as a narrow, 11 mile long, lake alone, it's connected to a lake nearly as big as, and much more wide open than Winnipesaukee.

I would not recommend operating any boat at planing speed, at night, while drunk on any lake. I don't think a speed limit would fix that kind of behavior. Speed limits certainly haven't had any effect on drunk driving on US highways.

You can't be referring to the 2 kayakers out at night in kayaks (not theirs BTW) with absolutely no lights, drinking and nude? Yes, that's right, so speed limit or not what boat wouldn't have seen them. They were being quiet so as not to be noticed (gee I wonder why). Your agenda is obvious, so please making something out of nothing and with no facts.

Wind through the branches
 

APS wrote in part
I'm only joining in this discussion briefly to ask my good friend APS if he is certain about his statement?

The photo you attached appears to have palm trees in the background. So how close is this guy to you?

APS is listed as having a location of Florida and Winnipesaukee, so I would assume that he/she is a seasonal resident here. Or is it just a misc picture that APS posted??? Clearly there was no real knowledge of the brand of boat pictured. The "hook" on the bow of that boat is clearly a telltale sign of Fountain. Being that Formula does not make a style boat like that I find it funny that the time would have been spent checking out the model names of Formula to go with the rest of the post yet no notice was made of the types of boats they build...

Just looked this up, the speed limits bill from the prior legislative session, HB 162, was passed in the House of Representatives by 193-139 out of 400 state reps on Feb 2, 2006 (Groundhogs day). That was a different group of state reps than who's serving now. It went on to die in the Senate by xx-xx.......16-9 or something....dunno.......(24 state senators) but the 2006 November election switched both the NH House & Senate from a Republican to a Democratic majority. But getting a majority of senators to agree to a new law like this and get it passed during an election year could be too difficult. So it's basically impossible to make an intelligent prediction. Maybe a dumb one, but nuthn too brite..... just too close to call?

Me....what do I predict.....I predict that the groundhog will NOT see its' shadow on February 2, and winter will last & last & last! Long live wintah!

........................

codeman671, my post was dripping with sarcasm :laugh:

I was just pointing out, by use of sarcasm, that APS has once again traveled far and wide to try (again failing) to make a point. This time with a pic of a pretty Fountain blue water fishing boat in Florida. (The Fountain name is on the gunwale just above the word Battery)

I would also point out that this particular blue water fishing boat in Florida does not appear to be speeding or violating any other law.

Just another attempt by the "anti-powerboat/speed limits in search of a problem" crowd to take a perfectly innocent scene and twist it into something to be feared and crushed!

Proof again APS doesn't know what he's talking about , or lying , or thinks WE don't know what we're looking at , or all the above:laugh:.
In any case it is certainly indicative of a drowning man grabbing for anything he can. So keep up the great work because anybody that's truly knowledgable can see through your smoke and mirrors game and it only makes YOU look worse. You could wind up being your own worst enemy:rolleye2:

:coolsm:Hey, here's a thought, if HB847 actually passes the house, senate and executive, then some smart cookie should figure out a way "to melt down those huge fiberglass hulls, and beat them into kayaks." Just imagine such a process.....you could walk in with a 47' Fountain....and walk out with a 12' kayak, all set up for fishing......plus a big box of granola....gratis.....wow.....what a concept!!:laugh:

"The Rules" are Already Broken, But...
 

It's been eight days: He's not "firing". :rolleye2:
One of my two errors: the boat appears to be named "A Salt and Battery"—my monitor isn't sharp enough to tell.

But why the in-your-face name? What's next, "Assault With a Deadly Weapon", "Manslaughter", "Malice Towards All"? :eek:

Pretty sharp—those who spotted the palm trees. This particular boat was located ¼-mile from me, and 1/10 mile from the open ocean—where excess speeds are tolerated by the widely-scattered boaters out there. Speed limit opponents—especially those who choose to ignore speed limit laws—need to continue displaying such sharpness at 80-MPH. :rolleye1:

What??? No Fountain "Obliterator"??? There are still some kids out there to run over out there.
Kayaks are normally quiet and are not normally equipped with navigation lights. The kayakers weren't charged for nudity or drinking—nor for the absense of a lantern.

It's not "nothing" when you fail to see objects in your path at speed—at any time. A skipper is responsible for his boat's actions—particularly when there are breathing, sentient beings in his boat or in front of it).

When a ball rolls out into my path between parked cars, I slow down. At what is being called a "slow" speed, Littlefield had ample time to observe the slower boat to his left before crushing it under his overweight, overpowered, 4½ tons. That the excessively-long deck on his 4½-ton boat covered the other boat from view hasn't been discussed.

The speed wasn't fast enought to kill? The speedboat didn't make three kayaks out of two, either. What distance would you guess the boater was to meeting his maker? (In inches).

Try Google for combinations of "130-MPH, jolly-roger, winnipesaukee, performance-boats, donziregistry.com", and it should appear. I posted the link here months ago.

As in most things nautical, Dave R is right: Long Lake is the bottom photo. The two were selected for identical size (17K) to illustrate how executioners in one lake can be just as deadly in another. (Duh).

(Dave R is also right about his top speed handling as "nervous" in his own recreational boat.)
Alcohol is an increasing problem: Records are falling.

A woman was recently stopped with a BAC nine times the limit.

Just two weeks ago, a driver (with extremely important connections) "got enforced" caught going 70-in-a-30 New Hampshire speed limit zone. Maybe watch how this case runs its course?

Most citizens are wishing the state "good luck" in the enforcement of this case.

In my new—and admittedly eccentric—neighborhood, a family has cut the good front half off of a wrecked speedboat and is using it to store their garbage cans in! From the roadway, it looks pretty normal! :laugh:

Say what?
 

I find it interesting that while people who hate powerboats are pushing for an unenforceable (by their own admission) and an unfunded speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee, the NH Legislature is considering a bill that would INCREASE THE SPEED ON STATE HIGHWAYS! :eek:

Who has admitted that a speed limit is unenforceable?

And please consider that most of us OWN power boats.

I don't hate powerboats - but, in my opinion, the current unlimited speed limit is a bit insane (and very unsafe for the smaller, slower boats).

The NH Leislature considers all sorts of things. Given the current political mood about global warming (and oil shortages), I would be very surprised if that bill gets very far.

I am more frightened by a boat going 20 mph and not paying attention than a boat going 60. For some reason they always seem to be paying keen attention to what is ahead of them.

I totally disagree with you. I've never had a close call with a 20 mph boat - I have with much fast boats, who haven't seen me until they were way too close for comfort. That's the honest truth, whether you believe me or not. When you're traveling 100 feet per second (70mph), it is not at all hard to break the 150 foot rule, just because you didn't see a small boat in time. When a boat is traveling slower, the operator has more time to react - that's a simple fact.

A lake speed limit is enforceable - I've never even suggested that it wasn't. I've personally witnessed enforcement of a speed limit on Squam.

Is it 100% enforceable? No. But neither are highway speed limits.

The only reason that I'm so pro-speed limit is that I've seen first hand how dangerous it can be to mix high speed boats with paddlers. And I've seen how much having a speed limit can improve this situation. In my opinion, reducing the difference between the speeds of the fastest boats and the slowest boats is one of the best ways to make any body of water safer for everyone. I just wish that the bill hadn't been amended so that Wini was the only lake affected by it.

Perhaps the bill should be amended to ban paddlers from the Lake.

A win-win for all.

The amended bill would protect you (you seem to be partial to the government protecting you) and allow life, as it has been for many, many decades at the Lake, to continue.

This is exactly why we need the lake speed limit bill. You and many others fee that your "right" to travel at unlimited speeds in more important than the rights of others to even use the lake.

My grandfather kayaked on wini. Paddlers were here for hundreds of years before powerboats, so if you're suggesting squatter's rights, we would win.


From RSA 270:1 "II. In the interest of maintaining the residential, recreational and scenic values which New Hampshire public waters provide to residents of the state and to the promotion of our tourist industry, and in light of the fact that competing uses for the enjoyment of these waters, if not regulated for the benefit of all users, may diminish the value to be derived from them, it is hereby declared that the public waters of New Hampshire shall be maintained and regulated in such way as to provide for the safe and mutual enjoyment of a variety of uses, both from the shore and from water-borne conveyances."

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p>"Among these treasures of our land is water—fast becoming our most valuable, most prized, most critical resource. A blessing where properly used—but it can bring devastation and ruin when left uncontrolled."
Eisenhower, Dwight D. 34th president of the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">United States.</st1:place></st1:country-region>
<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"></st1:place></st1:country-region>
<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">We have laws mainly because everyone's right to liberty ends where it intrudes on someone else's liberty. We wouldn’t need most of our laws if everyone was truly concerned with (and understood) how their actions affect others. But unfortunately some people don’t really care (or truly understand) how their actions affect others.

A speed limit law does not ban anyone from using the lake. All it will do is require a the fastes powerboaters to slow down, which the proponents of the bill feel will make the lake safer.
</st1:place></st1:country-region></o:p>

May I respectfully suggest you simply paddle faster;).

Well as I asked you originally, what speed is safe in this situation? You can't name a number because it depends on the conditions. A power boat can kill at any speed. One with a propeller can kill when stopped.

So picking an arbitrary speed to prevent death is impossible.

GWC, Cal, I know you are just joking around, but you know that those posts are going to be quoted ad naseum as proof that evil power boaters are against paddlers.

People who think they know better and only want to take away your freedoms to protect you, tend to be humourless, they won't get the irony.

Is this your way of telling the Forum that your grandfather was capable of using common sense to protect himself from danger and hence never felt a need to have a speed limit on the Lake while he enjoyed its serendipitous moments paddling its surface?

So, why is it that you are not able to enjoy the Lake, as did your grandfather, without government intervention to protect you?

No. That was just my response to your suggestion that high-speed powerboaters had some sort of squatters rights on the lake, just because they have been here for decades. People have been paddling on Wini for hundreds of years longer than powerboats. The mention of my grandfather was just to make the point that my own family has been living in NH and paddling on NH lakes for generations.

My grandfather kayaked on the lake in the 1930's - things have changed just a bit since then. For one thing, people in general are now less considerate of others. And in general, powerboats on the lake have become much faster and much larger. And there are more boats on the lake now.

My grandfather was in the NH Legislature, and I'm certain that if he was still alive and still there, that he would vote for HB 847.

Without laws (what you call government intervention), we would have anarchy. Laws exist to ensure fairness (at least this is what they were originally meant to do). I see a lake speed limit as fairness, since it doesn't ban any boaters, but just requires the fastest ones to slow down.

Your idea of fairness is to kick the paddlers off the lake. You seem to believe that those with the most horsepower have some sort of inherent right over other boaters. I don't see that as a right.

Few paddlers can keep up with me, including most guys. The maximum sustained speed for a sea kayak is about 6 mph - and the average recreational kayaker can only paddle at about 3 mph, which is 15 times slower than a 45 mph powerboat.

People who are made fun of rarely see it as funny. And, personally I don't see anything funny about putting other boaters in danger, or in forcing smaller/slower boats off the lake.

I've canoed and kayaked and sailed and for the life of me I cannot understand the need for a LITTLE boat in the middle of a BIG lake other than a person having an underlying self distructive wish. I don't care if it's a sea kayak , an ocean kayak , a pool kayak , or a fly to the moon kayak. It's still a LITTLE boat in a BIG lake. A real news flash huh? Some kayak owners are well experienced and carry all necesary safety items and watch the weather but get caught in the broads in a summer thunderstorm with 4' waves and get beat in the head with your own , overturned kayak enough times , tell me they're not in trouble. Yeah , yeah they know what they're doing , they're strong swimmers....sorry , not in my book and you'll read about them in the news paper and all of this without even mentioning fast power boats.
My own personal opinion (which means nothing) is 150' from shore is plenty for a small and slow boat. Big ones already have to stay outside of this or go slow. Gee , that law is already in effect:eek:. When I canoe , I do it in small bodies of water. Most of which you can get out and walk if you have to. Maybe I'm just chicken , overly cautious , or have common sense , I'm not smart enough to figure it out:D
Where I grew up I lived half a block from a river where power boats were outlawed. Only sail and paddle craft were allowed. Worst part was it would have been fantastic for waterskiing. None of us ever tried to limit or take their river away because we have a right to powerboat on it. Shame it's still not 1960:rolleye2:

OK enough , I'm off my soap box

Apparently you haven’t been paying attention to my posts. To you there’s no difference between a recreational kayak and a sea kayak – yet they are very different from each other in many ways.

I can easily paddle 20 miles in my 16 foot sea kayak in an afternoon – in a recreational kayak, you would be hard pressed to do 10 miles. And I’ve been out in 4 foot waves, without ever tipping over. That's because a sea kayak is designed to handle large waves.

Here’s a news flash for you: A sea kayak is made to be paddled on large bodies of water – it is not intended for small, shallow ponds. What do you think the “sea” part actually stands for? (And I do also paddled in large bays on the ocean.) For the past three years, I have paddle for hundreds of miles on large bodies of water each summer – without ever getting in trouble, or ever needing to be rescued.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I’m also a member of a varsity collegiate sailing team (currently 8<SUP>th</SUP> in the nation) - and guess where we practice? On Mt Hope and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Narragansett Bay</st1:place> - which are very large bodies of salt water. And these are little tiny 14 foot sailboats – and we go out in all sorts of nasty weather. And none of us are what I would call “self destructive” – we are just hard working trained athletes and registered members of the intercollegiate sailing association.

A paddler has the same right to use the entire lake as a powerboater. There's actually only about 2 square miles on Wini where you are ever more than a mile from some shore. It takes me only about 10 or 12 minutes to travel a mile, so it is not all that hard to get to safety if a storm moves in.

Your idea of fairness is to limit the speed of all boats on the lake to a speed limit that you see fit yet it has been proven that this is not necessary. The proponents of your bill have been trying to ban a certain type of boat from the lake. How fair is this to the people that enjoy these types of boats? More people have died on the lake in the last 5-10 years on their own accord than at the hands of these evil boaters.


I trust that you can keep it under 45mph then?

Unfortunately for you, your super-human strength was not accompanied with eagle-like vision and super hearing so that you can notice these motorized nuisances and avoid danger... :laugh:


Who is forcing? I think Cal just asked you to go faster... :laugh:

Since a customer of mine in Singapore decided to wake me up at 2:30am to spread some cheer I might as well spread mine here. A new thought... Why don't we start a new law that curbs pollution on the lake by prohibiting any boats (be it paddle, sail or motorized) that does not have bathroom facilities? Something tells me that these thousands of paddlers out on the lake have to "go" at some point. Where is it ending up? In the lake. Maybe this is the answer as to why pollution is up and water quality is down. :rolleye2:

My great great grandfather had an awsome horse that he use to ride to town with until those dang horseless carraiges started to run his kind over.As you said yourself "THINGS HAVE CHANGED JUST A BIT SINCE THEN".

Evanstar, you're killing me here. How many times have you been on the Lake, 5, 10, 15, 20 ??????? We've established before that your first time on the lake was a year or two ago. Now you imply how many close encounters you've had with "high speed" boats. Give me a break. I too "paddle" on the lake, for a lot longer than you have. I have NEVER had a close encounter with a speeding boat, or any boat for that matter and I paddle in some busy areas. I find it very hard to believe that you have had so many close encounters. I seriously doubt you've had any close encounters and if you have, it was with a boat traveling travelling under 30 mph.

Exactly, since there is no problem, as shown by statistics and accident data, all the speed limit will do is make you and your buddies "feel" safer. But I seriously doubt that too, because most, if not all of the boats you see from your kayak are already going slower than 45.



No wonder Don has had to replace his server with all the hot air the speed limit proponents cycle through it.:rolleye2: