From the Concord Monitor, 9/8/2009

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

I even snickered once at the dock when I saw this guy getting out of his go fast looking like a cross between Don Johnson and Reggie Fountain (YIKES)

Now THERE'S a mental image I could've done without!!!

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Frankly, I think someone's a bit too touchy?

I presume you're referring to me...and yes, on this subject, I do get a little agitated. It comes from following the speed limit debate on this forum and listening/reading all the smoke being blown up our collective butts by the SL supporters. I'm tired of listening to all the lies and then having to listen to that clown on the dock!

[onlywinni]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

Now THERE'S a mental image I could've done without!!!


I presume you're referring to me...and yes, on this subject, I do get a little agitated. It comes from following the speed limit debate on this forum and listening/reading all the smoke being blown up our collective butts by the SL supporters. I'm tired of listening to all the lies and then having to listen to that clown on the dock!

From one Baja Lover to another.....Try and let it go..

Save your fight/words for Concord if new legislation is filed.

Trying to debate this issue with the hardcore SL supporters is a waste of time in my opinion-I tried and wanted to throw my laptop out the window like 20 times!!!....now I just let them talk there nonsense how quiet and peaceful the lake is and no one ever exceeds 45mph.....

The Performance Boat Haters are out there in small numbers, dont let them bother you...I think back when I was a kid...I think it was Winnie the Pooh

If you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything at all

The guy on the dock, wanted to be a big shot to his guests on board and try and make up for the fact he had a little tiny boat that could not compare...

Just ignore the haters I say and Happy Boating!!!!

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

onlywinni, I understand what you and VtSteve are saying, I just needed to vent! Thanks to all for the opportunity!

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

onlywinni, I understand what you and VtSteve are saying, I just needed to vent! Thanks to all for the opportunity!

Nothing personal, I do understand your frustration. Bear in mind, there are a lot of Type AAAAAAA personalities that precede you in GF boats, so you have to take responsibility for their bad habits.

I know, nobody else in anything else has to (other than PWC's)

It only takes a few to ruin it, before the none of this and none of that crowd takes over. It's happened all over the country. Lake George is a graveyard of what once was a proud and free lake. The EC and TB people took it over. And no, I'm not condoning jerky behavior either.

There has to be a happy medium. You need to win over that boorish crowd on the docks.

[ApS]

Five items stand out in this article—starting with Welch Island.

1) .Welch Islander Kelly Wieser says, "...she worries whether the lake will be safe enough for her daughters, now 2 and 4, to learn to drive someday..."It's just become crazy over the years," she said...the speed limit has been a deterrent for the fast "offensive" boats..."

....Welch Islander Ron Mory of Marlboro, Mass, is quoted in The Union Leader as saying "...large, high speed boats have created a “fear factor” on the lake that ruins the boating experience for practically everyone."

....Welch Island—I've observed for the first time this year myself—is definitely in the middle of the mayhem.

....Welch Islanders live in the gunsights of "the usual offenders" speeding towards Braun Bay!

....Welch Islanders—those long-suffering Welch Islanders: I may need to stop complaining!

"The problem" may be worse to the north of Welch Island than from what I am seeing here to the south of Welch Island .

2)

According to Landry, problems on the lake aren't caused by the fastest boats out there but by "stupid, inattentive people driving boats."

Yup. To drive home their point about how safe they are, the Opposers need to make still more friends in the NH Legislature by complaining about every other kind of boater.

3)

"...officers have conducted stationary speed monitoring - standing on a dock, using six radars for a total of 60 hours since early July..."

The Marine Patrol has six radar guns, and uses them on "a" dock?

I know "a dock" where they can record the usual offenders— every weekend! The usual offenders exit the Broads after "a comfortable ride on a 'wild and windy' Broads"—then it's WOT in the Bay!!!

4)

"The Marine Patrol has seen a 20 percent drop in calls for service".

One WinnFABS principal wrote me in June,

"...my personal preference is to let the Marine Patrol go about its business, and not for us to call-in offenders who are speeding..."

5)

"This place isn't the wild, wild, west that people make it out to be."

My own perception was such, I wrote a letter to the Granite State News editor titled, "Lake Winnipesaukee is Anarchy".

My "Anarchy" letter was published just three days before the first instance where these "offensive boats" produced Lake Winnipesaukee's second-most tragic collision headline since 1980.

All the principals in that collision had the opportunity to read my letter!

.
.
.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

My "Anarchy" letter was published just three days before the first instance where these "offensive boats" produced Lake Winnipesaukee's second-most tragic collision headline since 1980.

.

I knew it. They are targeting the big cruisers next.

What happen in 1980?

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

My "Anarchy" letter was published just three days before the first instance where these "offensive boats" produced Lake Winnipesaukee's second-most tragic collision headline since 1980.

All the principals in that collision had the opportunity to read my letter!

.
.
.

The most tragic collision since 1980 was an impaired boater that ran into and on top of another at a speed generally accepted by the MP and the Court to be 28 mph? That's the worst? You've been ranting and raving about that one for how long APS?

What's been interesting in this summer's debate is that even the MP has become the enemy of the staunch supporters of the SL. APS scratches his head in amazement as boaters are not ticketed by speed traps in front of his abode. Uh oh, didn't everyone say the chaos and anarchy has ended?

Most people fall somewhere in the middle of this entire argument. There are those that think 45 mph is Reaaaaaaly fast in a boat, and those that want to rampage all over doing whatever. I might add, I don't know any of the latter, but there are some.

My opinion after all of these debates has finally come to this.

1) I want the MP to focus on serious infractions and drunks.

2) I would like them to then focus on being helpful and informative, and generally just do some effective PR work.

3) I never, ever, ever want people like APS, Jack Weeks, and the likes of El Chase to have any control over any public resource or waterway.


Now let's see what next year brings. This season is over

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...The most tragic collision since 1980 was an impaired boater that ran into and on top of another at a speed generally accepted by the MP and the Court to be 28 mph? That's the worst? You've been ranting and raving about that one for how long APS...?"

1) Although we've learned of a triple-fatality into a Gilford cottage and a Parker Island tragedy, there appears to be a "knowledge-gap" of Winnipesaukee collisions between 1980-2001. It's the Internet that has assisted our collective knowledge since 2001. (Not so much the NHMP).

2) While 28-MPH is "generally accepted", I'll accept a genuine reconstruction of that night's collision—not what "somebody-testifies-to-what-somebody-said".

3) Some can say that both "drivers" were comfortable with high speed; moreover, both were closely involved in the speed-boat business! What is the "comfort level" of the even less experienced who would boat at high speed?

4) But that collision was the 2nd-worst since 2001. At whatever speed the collision occurred—it was a stranger that was killed—and not the skipper's own friend.

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...What's been interesting in this summer's debate is that even the MP has become the enemy of the staunch supporters of the SL. APS scratches his head in amazement as boaters are not ticketed by speed traps in front of his abode. Uh oh, didn't everyone say the chaos and anarchy has ended...?"

The fear of chaos and anarchy has been reduced, but it shouldn't come as a result of visitors staying away—or the purchase of still-bigger boats by everybody else. While we still have the occasional "naive" boater, we still more often have the occasional speeding offender.

Many offenders, I've noticed, are gray-haired "drivers". Maybe the MPs are lax in enforcing the boater-certification requirement which should now apply to the most-senior of our boaters?

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...3) I never, ever, ever want people like APS, Jack Weeks, and the likes of El Chase to have any control over any public resource or waterway.

Speaking for myself, I've followed the practice of that WinnFABS writer to not advise the MPs of the offenders who visit my area. As to "control", I'm a "non-voting taxpayer".

As stated by both sides in this debate—your worst enemy isn't the voter—it's the offenders among your own number who visit Lake Winnipesaukee.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

1) Although we've learned of a triple-fatality into a Gilford cottage and a Parker Island tragedy, there appears to be a "knowledge-gap" of Winnipesaukee collisions between 1980-2001. It's the Internet that has assisted our collective knowledge since 2001. (Not so much the NHMP).

What triple-fatality into a Gilford cottage and what Parker Island tragedy are you talking about? I am not familiar with either.

I see where a fellow named "John Weeks" made quite an impression around the Legislative Office Building yesterday. Anyone know any details of his dealings there? Why has he been asked to speak to several committee chairpersons? About what?

3, 2, 1,...

[Kracken]

From Webster's Dictionary:

Main Entry: 1troll
Pronunciation: \ˈtrōl\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, probably from Anglo-French *troiller, *troller; akin to Anglo-French troil, trolle winch
Date: 15th century
transitive verb
1 : to cause to move round and round : roll
2 a : to sing the parts of (as a round or catch) in succession b : to sing loudly c : to celebrate in song
3 a : to fish for by trolling b : to fish by trolling in c : to pull through the water in trolling d : to search in or at ; also : prowl
intransitive verb
1 : to move around : ramble
2 a : to fish by trailing a lure or baited hook from a moving boat b : search, look ; also : prowl
3 : to sing or play in a jovial manner
4 : to speak rapidly

—noun
1 : elchase

[OCDACTIVE]

how many times this revolving door going to come around?

Farve did well last night!

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Kracken

From Webster's Dictionary:

Main Entry: 1troll
Pronunciation: \ˈtrōl\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, probably from Anglo-French *troiller, *troller; akin to Anglo-French troil, trolle winch
Date: 15th century
transitive verb
1 : to cause to move round and round : roll
2 a : to sing the parts of (as a round or catch) in succession b : to sing loudly c : to celebrate in song
3 a : to fish for by trolling b : to fish by trolling in c : to pull through the water in trolling d : to search in or at ; also : prowl
intransitive verb
1 : to move around : ramble
2 a : to fish by trailing a lure or baited hook from a moving boat b : search, look ; also : prowl
3 : to sing or play in a jovial manner
4 : to speak rapidly

—noun
1 : elchase

-noun
2 : anyone else on this forum who could possibly question the GFBL ideology that speed limits are of no value and are "un-American".

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

-noun
2 : anyone else on this forum who could possibly question the GFBL ideology that speed limits are of no value and are "un-American".

I think you are going for a sarcastic or humorous remark. As stated in the past I have no issues with you, bear islander, even APS.. Some of the most powerful SL supporters on here who trumpet your cause very well.

Then there are those who don't.

But if it was meant to be a funny remark.. I did laugh..

[Kracken]

Is there a better synonym for American than freedom?

Main Entry: free·dom
Pronunciation: frē-dom
Function: noun
Date: before 12th century
1 : the quality or state of being free: as a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b : liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : independence c : the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous d : ease, facility e : the quality of being frank, open, or outspoken f : improper familiarity g : boldness of conception or execution h : unrestricted use
2 a : a political right b : franchise, privilege

synonyms freedom, liberty, license mean the power or condition of acting without compulsion. freedom has a broad range of application from total absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly hampered or frustrated . liberty suggests release from former restraint or compulsion . license implies freedom specially granted or conceded and may connote an abuse of freedom .

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Kracken

Is there a better synonym for American than freedom?

Main Entry: free·dom
Pronunciation: frē-dom
Function: noun
Date: before 12th century
1 : the quality or state of being free: as a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b : liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : independence c : the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous d : ease, facility e : the quality of being frank, open, or outspoken f : improper familiarity g : boldness of conception or execution h : unrestricted use
2 a : a political right b : franchise, privilege

synonyms freedom, liberty, license mean the power or condition of acting without compulsion. freedom has a broad range of application from total absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly hampered or frustrated . liberty suggests release from former restraint or compulsion . license implies freedom specially granted or conceded and may connote an abuse of freedom .

1:h is the one that got my attention. Winnipesaukee wouldn't be the first of America's great and beautiful natural resources to be despoiled by unrestricted use.

[DEJ]

FYI, Lake Winnipesaukee has many restrictions on it's use, not unrestricted as you implied.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by DEJ

FYI, Lake Winnipesaukee has many restrictions on it's use, not unrestricted as you implied.

You are right there...and I am grateful for said restrictions. Unrestricted use (see above definition of freedom) of the lake would be a bad thing.

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

-noun
2 : anyone else on this forum who could possibly question the GFBL ideology that speed limits are of no value and are "un-American".

Sunny,

I brought up "Un-American". However, you folks continue to twist the words.

It is not Un-American to have an opinion or a question. It is completely Un-American to deliberately mislead the public to gain a political advantage that has resulted in a law that restricts the use of a public resource by certain group of people.

It is Un-American in my opinion to use mis-truths and other misleading statements, that the pro-speed-limit folks have used and continue to use in this debate, that have given good people with little or no knowledge of the real situation the completely wrong view of what is the real situation on Lake Winnipesaukee.

For that, those using these tactics should be ashamed!

If any of the pro-SL minority actually cared about real safety on the lake, your efforts would be better spent supporting boater education and responsible boating by all. All you want to do is to restrict performance boats from the lake in this round, then it is on to restricting cruisers. You must think the rest of us are completely stupid not to see this.

R2B

[VtSteve]

This is how a proper committee hearing should proceed.


So Mr. Weeks, we have your letter in front of us, and we've been discussing it amongst ourselves. We notice that your comments about the lake this year, in regards to boating traffic and weather, contrast significantly from not only our own experiences this year, but from virtually everybody's. Where were you this summer that there was so much good boating weather?

Also, could you please elaborate on the multitude of boating accidents? Our committee knows about several tragic deaths that occurred early this season, but we weren't aware that this was the first summer without a High-Speed tragedy. In fact, looking through the records, we couldn't come up with a single high-speed tragedy on the lake. We are aware of two tragedies that occurred on the lake, and we have a representative from the Marine Patrol here today to review the case facts with us.

We assume you have a list to support your claims, can we see it please?
______________________________

This is how politics works sometimes

Hi Jack, how are you? Oh yeah, we know about timing, don't worry about that. We were thinking of burying something in with another law in January, when those gosh darn out of state boaters weren't looking.

Jack, don't worry about those idiots that keep taking about enforcement and safety, we have your back covered. Remember, we want those boats and others off the lake as well. These things take time, and have to be handled carefully. If people thought we passed laws to discriminate against people we don't like, all heck would break loose.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by elchase

I see where a fellow named "John Weeks" made quite an impression around the Legislative Office Building yesterday. Anyone know any details of his dealings there? Why has he been asked to speak to several committee chairpersons? About what?

3, 2, 1,...

Since you observed "John Weeks" around the legislative office building, what is your business????????

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

what is your business????????

Have patience. You'll see soon enough.

Speaking of Bret Favre, Did you guys see the way he played last night? I bet the Vikings are glad that the Packers were not able to convince him to retire. I heard he got so upset when they told him he was washed up that he decided to stick around a few more years. Now look at the way he throttled the very team that has dissed him. It was like watching a man versus a bunch of little boys. What sweet revenge that must have been.
Got to go. Underdog is on Nickelodeon in a bit. That theme song is so catchy. And his uniform is so cute.

PS: You guys all forgot to do "Thank You" on one of Kracken's posts above.

[Kracken]

Bret Farve brings a lot of excitement and the fans of the Vikings are currently very happy to have him. Unfortunately for them it is highly unlikely he will be able to maintain his performance over such a long and grueling season. Recent history has proven that any success he has had is short lived due to his gunslinger mentality. His techniques have become flawed and over time he will always overplay his hand.

I think there is a learning moment in there somewhere.

As for Mr. Weeks we can all make an educated guess what he is up to. It’s a funny thing though, if he is speaking for the majority and doing the right thing. Why all the secrecy?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Kracken

Bret Farve brings a lot of excitement and the fans of the Vikings are currently very happy to have him. Unfortunately for them it is highly unlikely he will be able to maintain his performance over such a long and grueling season. Recent history has proven that any success he has had is short lived due to his gunslinger mentality. His techniques have become flawed and over time he will always overplay his hand.

As for Mr. Weeks we can all make an educated guess what he is up to. It’s a funny thing though, if he is speaking for the majority and doing the right thing. Why all the secrecy?

And why the: I'm leaving, I'm Back, I'm Leaving, I'm back? Just wondering? No one ever asked you to leave in the first place. You did that on your own accord. So just wondering why the constant change of heart?

[DEJ]

I think he has taken a shine to you OCD!!!

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by DEJ

I think he has taken a shine to you OCD!!!

LOL.. the only shine he can have is to shine my boat called OCD.. But I am kind of particular so that may not even work out...

[DEJ]

I found out why he was there, nothing to worry about.

[VtSteve]

It's not surprising that someone like Jack Weeks would be brought in to use cheap political tactics, lies and whatever, to get the agenda done. He's quite the insider indeed, so he's well-versed in these areas. At least one of his past assignments shows that he might not have the great judgement he pretends to.

Jack Weeks sounds like another political operative. I wonder how the people of New Hampshire feel about that?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by codeman671

What triple-fatality into a Gilford cottage and what Parker Island tragedy are you talking about? I am not familiar with either.

Both appeared in last year's SL discussion: use of the "ignore" function can reduce exposure to facts, btw. I recall that SIKSUKER was quoted on that high-speed triple—which happened at night, and had the GFBL inverted into the cottage. (It had first hit a dock to become airborne). In the discussion's follow-ups, some very gruesome details appeared.

The Parker Island tragedy was a GFBL Donzi, and involved the non-use of a lanyard by an experienced "Performance Boater".

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

I agree that pumping raw sewage or dumping trash are good restrictions! I am not convinced the SL has any value based on all the collected data to date!!!!!!

I have two floatplane pilots in my family: one has a incident to tell you about, regarding Lake Winnipesaukee water quality—and a certain GFBL visitor.

BTW:

In early Spring, I was driving my trademark "9-over" the 55-MPH speed-limit, when I perceived that I was being targeted by a large vehicle needing to pass on a two-lane bridge. Thinking he surely doesn't want to pass me—with a half-dozen young passengers—I picked up my camera anyway.

Sure enough, an oversized conveyance—with an experienced driver—carrying someone else's children—decided that some rules can be ignored.

(Although we were both traveling in the same direction—unlike boating—that's an attitude towards speed limits I can do without).

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Both appeared in last year's SL discussion: use of the "ignore" function can reduce exposure to facts, btw. I recall that SIKSUKER was quoted on that high-speed triple—which happened at night, and had the GFBL inverted into the cottage. (It had first hit a dock to become airborne). In the discussion's follow-ups, some very gruesome details appeared.

I do not have anyone on ignore, especially you. Why would I want to ignore the comedy? Everyone needs a bit of humor in their life.

Having to go back into the 1970's for an example is comical to me, although the results were not. The facts at the end of the day indicate that there are minimal, almost a non-existant number of high speed accidents to support a safety issue on Winnipesaukee. Most of the accidents that have occured were not even high speed related, and most were alcohol related. Where is the real problem here???

How many total accidents have taken place in the last 30 years that are high speed related? How many are alcohol related? Compare it to the number of boats on the lake each year and the percentage is pathetically small...

[Ryan]

If speed were an issue that warranted a new law, wouldn't there be data showing an INCREASED amount of high speed accidents in the years leading up to the initial draft of the bill?

If there were even 5 'incidents' in 2004 and 10 'incidents' in 2005, then I would probably have a different opinion.

Opinions, perceptions, spin and outright lies led to a solution without a problem. This just needs to sunset, with no relevant data to support a continuation, as originally written into the bill. Anything else is just a waste of taxpayer $$.

[VtSteve]

Not long ago, someone wondered what was wrong in Vermont, since it had a 2008 increase in accidents, whereas NH declined to practically none. Just the year before, people were wondering why VT was so safe, and NH was not. The statistics clearly showed that both states have very few serious accidents or collisions on the water. When the numbers are low, even a small increase will cause a spike in the percentages. This year, Winni in particular has a problem, one that will sow up when the next report comes out.

This year on Winni was particularly telling. The MP said they had 20% fewer calls this summer, virtually everyone said that except for a couple of weekends in August, boat traffic was way down. It was almost unanimous that the weather sucked, and the economy wasn't much better, if any.

Both El and Jack said the lake traffic, and boating weather, were fine. It was also written that the lake just didn't "seem" as busy, because the boats were smaller and traveling slower.

Now I've known a few snake oil salesmen in my day, and a couple of really seeeeeedy political types. You know, the ones that try to convince you that a global depression is just a speed bump, and while they may have really hated you before, they really like you, it's just one or two people they don't like. Perhaps you just misunderstood.


If it looks like a duck, etc.........